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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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HERMOKIWI wrote: | The OP's stated desire is essentially for a "Holy Grail" horn... If a player wants very specific sonic results there is no adequate substitute for using the right tool for each job, the tool that is designed to meet all of the player's sonic requirements. There is no trumpet that can be the best of everything. |
+1
FWIW, with my limited knowledge of horn construction and sound characteristics, this assessment seems to be spot on in so many ways. My personal experience is governed by my specific performance requirements and so far, I have been able to get the results I have been looking for with a few different setups depending on the job requirements (this has not been devoid of much trial and error). If I have a consistent need for yet another setup, I'll doggedly pursue a solution when it happens. I would make the assumption that this approach dictates most performer and equipment evolution as well or there would not be so many horn, mouthpiece, accessory and modification variations that actually are marketed and sold on a regular basis. _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:46 am Post subject: Re: Time for a new trumpet - advice welcomed |
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Turkle wrote: | Howdy, folks.
As a reward to myself for paying off my last student loan (I'm now 100% debt-free!), I'm going to buy myself a new trumpet!
I have been playing my 8310zs for about 10 years as my daily driver. I play primarily jazz, and regularly do rock band and extremely small-time theater stuff. I also perform classical a few times a year. So I need a Bb that does it all. The Yamaha Shew has a gorgeous tone and is fantastically easy to play, and is incredibly in tune. But its slotting is so loose it's really pretty bad for classical and other work where pinpoint precision is mandatory. It's great for jazz and blues expression, but I don't trust the horn in the most demanding situations.
Here is what I'm looking for:
1) Lightweight - not negotiable! I am done with heavy horns for good!
2) Fantastic ease of play - I'm not looking to work hard, folks, I have a day job already
3) Great Slotting. Lightweight horns often have pretty loose slotting. I like that, but I need a horn that's going to "grab" the notes better than the 8310zs. As tight slotting as I can get on a lightweight horn, basically.
4) Versatility - must be able to play in any situation from small-group jazz to classical to loud rock stuff. From smokey and low to screaming and loud. From the blues to jazz to Carnival of Venice to Arutunian.
5) No vintage instruments. I need something shiny and new.
So! What I'd like from you folks is a list of horns I should try. At this point, I know that the Adams A5 (basically a Benge copy) and the Stomvi VRii (lightweight, big-bell) are on my shortlist. What else should I try as I evaluate my next trumpet?
Thanks! |
Hi Turkle
This may be a daft question, but is there any reason that you need to replace your existing trumpet?
Is there a possibly of you keeping your existing trumpet, and buying a second trumpet which has more secure slotting.
I'm in the opposite situation to you, having a Xeno II, finding it great for situations where pinpoint precision is mandatory, but wishing that it was looser slotting for Jazz.
If I had the money, I'd buy another trumpet for Jazz, and the 8310Z would be on my list to try.
For classical, I'd say that my Xeno II is very good, and if you were simply asking for suggestions of a second trumpet with more precise slotting, I would suggest adding it to your list of trumpets to try, but I personally don't think that it would do anything else you are personally looking well enough, and would effectively be the anti-8310Z.
Do you really need one trumpet which does it all, or could you add a second one with different playing attributes?
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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BGinNJ Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 380
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like the OP wants a magic trumpet! I would like all those things, too, especially "fantastically easy to play".
I tried a used V-Raptor at Dillon's once, great horn, lightweight- but it really seemed like a lead horn, not for classical or "dark & smoky". Also pricey for a used horn, but what's your budget?
I suggest taking the train there from NYC, try a bunch of horns. Just a couple of points- check their list online to narrow down your choices, and the used horns might not be bright & shiny. |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Howdy, folks:
Louise, in answer to your questions, I want to buy a new trumpet because I've been playing the same one for 10 years now and I have some money and I want to spend it on something nice! In my experience, playing a new instrument forces us to change some things in our physical, mental, and musical approach, which can help us grow as musicians. I'd never sell the 8310z! I just want another trumpet to play as my main axe.
Specifically, I'm a much stronger player than I was 10 years ago - in better physical shape, way better physical approach to the instrument, and I feel that I've outgrown my horn a little bit. Time to move to a horn that can take a bit more of a muscular approach, eh? Anyway, that's at least what I'm thinking.
BGinNJ, budget is no issue, I have money. I don't want a used horn, I want to buy new. The reason for a thread like this is that sometimes rare horns are very difficult to come by (e.g. V-Raptor) so if they are a good fit then it's worth taking special effort to find them, rather than just buying the first horn that I come across that I like!
The 8310z is a great horn, and it has served me extremely well. But you know how it is! Time for a new axe!
Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I appreciate it! So many horns to try, which is a great "problem" to have... Fortunately, I'm in no hurry. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Turkle wrote: | Howdy, folks:
Hi Turkle
Louise, in answer to your questions, I want to buy a new trumpet because I've been playing the same one for 10 years now and I have some money and I want to spend it on something nice!
Thank you very much for the clarification.
In my experience, playing a new instrument forces us to change some things in our physical, mental, and musical approach, which can help us grow as musicians.
Maybe, I'm not sure. I'm personally the happiest I've been with my playing, and I put it down to sticking to one trumpet and one cornet, and basically playing a consistent set-up on each.
I'd never sell the 8310z!
I don't blame you.
I just want another trumpet to play as my main axe.
Fair enough and why not.
Specifically, I'm a much stronger player than I was 10 years ago - in better physical shape, way better physical approach to the instrument,
Sounds great!
and I feel that I've outgrown my horn a little bit. Time to move to a horn that can take a bit more of a muscular approach, eh? Anyway, that's at least what I'm thinking.
I'm not so sure about this part, but maybe it is just semantics. You know what you are looking for, which is all that matters.
I'm wondering whether the Schilke B5 or B1 would be a possibility.
Take care
Lou
BGinNJ, budget is no issue, I have money. I don't want a used horn, I want to buy new. The reason for a thread like this is that sometimes rare horns are very difficult to come by (e.g. V-Raptor) so if they are a good fit then it's worth taking special effort to find them, rather than just buying the first horn that I come across that I like!
The 8310z is a great horn, and it has served me extremely well. But you know how it is! Time for a new axe!
Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I appreciate it! So many horns to try, which is a great "problem" to have... Fortunately, I'm in no hurry. |
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Mark Bradley Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 1149 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Try this (currently 15% off) and tell us what you think of it.
Arturo is playing these now and then and it would definitely be something different.
http://www.wwbw.com/daCarbo-Unica-Bb-Trumpet-J45904.wwbw?skuId=site8skuJ45904000001000&rNtt=dacarbo&index=1
The Flip Oakes Celebration (or Wild Thing) is also something you might try. They're fairly lightweight and after playing the Shew horn, which although a very good trumpet is like breathing through a straw, you might feel liberated on the Oakes horn. _________________ Bach 180S-25/ Reeves 43C
Blessing 1580
Bach 181SML cornet/ Laskey 60SB
Yamaha 8315G flugel/ Reeves 42F |
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jadickson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't read this entire thread, so sorry if it's already been suggested. But the original post made me think of a Schilke B1. I think the B1 checks everything on that list, right? _________________ Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com |
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jengstrom Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2008 Posts: 427 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Turkle, you don't say what kind of classical you play several times a year, but if it's orchestral, shouldn't you look at a horn that will blend in well?
I can't speak for most of the horns suggested, but I can tell you I used to have a 1600, and as much as I loved that horn, its sound didn't come close to working in an orchestral environment. I replaced it with a Bach 72*, which is a real chameleon of a horn.
Like it or not, I think your best bet if any orchestral work is to be had is a Bach or Yamaha (or maybe a Shires). Find the one you like the best. I have used my old 43* for orchestra, and while some will tell you it's too bright for that, it still has a core Bach sound and worked fine. No one ever asked, "Hey, that sounds funny. Is it a 37?"
My 2 cents.
John _________________ Bach 43*
Bach 72*
Bach Chicago C
Yamaha YTR-761 D/Eb
Kanstul 1525
Bach 196 picc |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Well, if money really is no object, why not get two different horns with different personalities? If one new horn is fun, imagine what two new horns would be like.
If you can get a nice Bach or Bach-like horn (Yamaha, Schilke, Shires, Adams, etc.) for classical music, then another type of horn for jazz, you are covered.
I haven't built a huge collection of horns, but I have a couple of different ones for different purposes. I've got an old beater of a student Conn for occasions where I wouldn't want to put a good horn at risk. I have a Bach for classical, a Schilke HC1 for Jazz and a B&S flugelhorn for a change of pace on ballads. I'd love to have a Shires Destine III for big band and lead - except that I can't play lead and I don't have a big band to play in. A piccolo would be nice - except that I can't play a pic. A Bach C trumpet would be nice for that orchestra gig that I have never had and never will. But you get the idea. Different horns work best for different things.
On the other hand, truth be told, I can do everything that I need to do on my Bach. Just don't tell the wife or I'll never be able to add to my collection.
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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J-Walk Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Posts: 259 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Based on tighter slots and lighter weight, I would suggest trying an Schilke S32. The HD series is fantastic, but a bit heavier than standard. The regular S series slots tighter and the horn is very nice in classical and commercial settings. I consider the non HD S-series lightweight.
A Calicchio 1S7 would fit the bill nicely, but can be a little bright in some classical settings. Players that don't muscle their horn around too much can certainly make these blend classically if they are careful. But if you don't back off up high on these, you will stick out in a section.
Though I haven't played one, the Scodwell Boston model would be one I would check out as well.
Best wishes, _________________ Jason Rahn
——————
Burbank Benge MLP 3X+
Adams A5
Larson Brasswerks “Reese” Model C
Schilke P5-4 picc
Courtois 154 flugel
A few mouthpieces that fit my face and horns |
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Dave CCM/SSO Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2015 Posts: 145 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: |
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If you want to really reward yourself, I'd recommend driving to the Shires factory in MA and having them fit you with your ideal horn. They make absolutely fantastic stuff, in my opinion. It would be really cool to see the factory as well.
Have fun!
Dave _________________ Dave
Springfield Symphony Orchestra (OH)
- www.springfieldsym.org
Seven Hills Brass
- http://www.facebook.com/sevenhillsbrass |
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