Fingering Chart for a 4 Valve Flugelhorn?

[tjyune]

Hello. Does anybody know where I can find a fingering chart for a 4 valve flugelhorn? Thanks!
_________________
"It's not the hours you put in your work that counts, it's the work you put in the hours." - Sam Ewig

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello,
Welcome to the TH. You really only need the 4th for low D and 2&4 for low C#. Other wise make your own harmonic chart incorporating the 4th valve much like what is in the Rubank books. 4, 4/2, 4/1, 4/1,2, 4/2,3, 4/1,3, 4/1,2,3 from each harmonic starting note.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[tjyune]

[MikeGreeninger]

You could probably use a Euphonium chart as the 4th valve has the same idea for each. Here is a chart, keep in mind it is in concert pitch. http://www.norlanbewley.com/euphonium/fingering-positions.htm

All the best,
Mike

[tjyune]

[quote="MikeGreeninger"]You could probably use a Euphonium chart as the 4th valve has the same idea for each. Here is a chart, keep in mind it is in concert pitch. http://www.norlanbewley.com/euphonium/fingering-positions.htm

Thank you! Those are awesome charts! Q: Can you explain "Compensating" and "Non-Compensating"?
_________________
"It's not the hours you put in your work that counts, it's the work you put in the hours." - Sam Ewig

[DH]

[dstpt]

[omelet]

I say just listen and experiment with the fingerings. You can find what works for you. You can figure out what the horn does and just see how it sounds or use a tuner as needed.
4 valve flugels are super fun, just enjoy the freedom:)

[Raggerty]

@dstpt

well, kinda, but out ears will naturally adjust things to just intonation (low integer ratios) rather than equal temperament (powers of the twelfth root of 2).

[mm55]

[TrumpetMD]

I've played my 4-valve Getzen 896 Eterna since the late 1970s. In college, I used the lower range to play Eb and F horn parts in brass ensembles.

As some mentioned, once you get below an F below the staff, the notes become progressively sharp. Once you get to a D above a pedal C, you're more than a half step sharp.

Here's what I do for my standard setup.
- 3rd valve slide out about 1/3 inch.
- 4th valve dump slide out about 1/2 inch.
- This allows me to use the 4th valve to help with low D's and C#'s.
But this requires me to use alternate valve combinations for
some notes.
Starting below a low F#...
F = 1+4
It's just a tad sharp, and must be lipped down.
E = 3+4
FYI, 1+2+4 is too sharp.
Eb = 2+3+4
It's just a tad sharp. I sometimes use 1+3+4.
D = 1+2+3+4
It's just a tad sharp, and must be lipped down.
C# = all open
This should be a pedal C, but I lip the note up the half step.
I find the note more resonant that using 1+2+3+4 and lipping
the note down. But either way, low C# is a challenge.

If I'm playing a lot of low notes ....
- 3rd valve slide out a 1/3 inch.
- 4th valve slide out 1/2 inch.
- 4th valve dump slide out as far as it goes (more than an inch).
- In this setup, I can't use the 4th valve to help with low D's and
C#'s. But I can use use more standard fingerings on the
lower notes.
Starting below a low F# ...
F = 1+4
E = 1+2+4
Eb = 2+3+4
D = 1+3+4
It's just a tad sharp, and must be lipped down.
C# = 1+2+3+4
It's just a tad sharp, and must be lipped down.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.

[dstpt]

All of Mike's (TrumpetMD) fingerings and 4th slide pulls outlined above are close to what I've used. I got the same 4v Getzen flugel particularly to practice notes below low F-sharp without having to do weird embouchure manipulations (for me) to make those notes centered as pedal tones and to work in a direction of making gentle increments of change in chop setting from one note to the next. If you end up doing something like what Mike has done–playing F and E-flat horn parts–then you might consider a deep-cupped mouthpiece to make those low notes easier to center. I mainly play a Denis Wick 2FL and find it fairly easy to get those low notes in tune, including pedal C-sharp, so your mouthpiece choice is, of course, another component to working on intonation issues. If you have to play, say, "Feels So Good" on a cover band gig, obviously you'd be using mpc equipment more suitable to the upper register on the horn.

[iiipopes]

To simplify all the above:

4=1+3.

In other words, the 4th valve is the same holding down 1+3 together, with the advantage that you can pull and set it in tune without needing a trigger. But that said, without a slide kicker on the other valves, all 4th valve combinations will be sharp, because pitch is geometric, not linear

This is the same as on three valve instruments 1 may be in tune by itself, and 3 may be in tune by itself, but you have to kick out something to get 1+3 in tune. That is the primary purpose of a 4th valve on low brass. Extra low range is a by-product.

Flugelhorns and all basic 4-valve low brass are non-compensating, meaning they don't have extra loops of tubing to get the sharp combinations in place. So 2+4 will be only slightly sharp but lippable, and the rest of the combinations progressively sharper and need either extended throw-out or even alternate valve combinations to get the pitches down to tune.

And for interest's sake, the best applet to describe how a compensating horn works, with all the secondary plumbing necessary for low brass:
http://www.dwerden.com/eu-articles-comp.cfm
_________________
King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet

[DH]