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Comfortable rim


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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AwesomeDad wrote:
cheiden wrote:
AwesomeDad wrote:
Ok so to use Yamaha number I believe what I'm looking for is the 14B4 rim with the cup size of the 16C4. And go...

JJ

I'd recommend you try a stock 14C4 before worrying about a custom piece. And FWIW all of the Yamaha "4" rims feel very similar and comfortable to me. I have no problem playing a Bach 3C rim on trumpet, Yamaha 14F4 on the flugel and a Yamaha 11C4 or 11B4 on the picc.

I may do that, I was just told by Yamaha that the 14B4 rim isn't as sharp as the 14C4 so I may give up a little cup depth for rim comfort. I'm teat playing tomorrow.

JJ

14B4 is a fine piece. I hardly detect a difference between the rims of the Yamaha B and C cups I've played. I played one for big bands for many years. Ultimately decided I wanted more depth of sound for most of my playing and had a favorite small vintage 3C rim cut and threaded onto a Bach 1.5C underpart. Which coincidentally sounds an awful lot like what you mentioned when you proposed a 14B4 rim on a 16C4 underpart. Before I made that decision I spent a lot of time on both the stock 3C and 1.5C pieces.
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AwesomeDad
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Joined: 22 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
AwesomeDad.
Want to learn what does what? Go here: https://www.bachbrass.com/application/files/4614/8521/7763/AV2BA901_Original_1889_web.pdf
Vincent Bach knew a thing or two about mouthpiece. His designs are copied by just about everyone. Some make their adjustments to suit what they feel may have been an "issue" with Bach's design.
He would put some sharpness on some rims to remind players they may not be at the proper angle. You can also see it is utter foolishness for an average, comeback, or beginner player to play anything above a 3 size. Those ain't for folks who cannot play well.

My suggestion is to go to the website of manufacturers to see what they say.
Here are some to search for.
GR mouthpieces
Karl Hammond
Schilke Music Products
Marcinkiewicz

There are many more to find.
R. Tomasek

Thanks I'll read it tonight at work...

JJ
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cbtj51
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Joined: 24 Nov 2015
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Location: Deep South

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

giakara wrote:
Some of the harder working pros in the market use Reeves pieces and one of the reasons is that he makes some of the most comfortable rims , call at the shop and they help you to choose the right one for you.

Regards


I played a lot of different mouthpieces early on looking for the "right sound". I was young then and playing Drum and Bugle Corps Solo Soprano demands! I played Jet Tone Severinsen pieces, J Parduba Double Cups and then a Bach 10 1/2 CW until college. Playing Lead in the Jazz Ensemble and Marching Band as well as Brass Ensemble and Brass Choir called for lots of hard playing everyday (upwards of 4 hours per day on a very regular basis) so comfort and sound were the main concerns. Enter the Reeves Mouthpiece line!!! I began playing a Reeves 1S695 in early 1972 that felt wonderful and gave me the sound that I was looking for all day everyday! Fast forward a bunch of years and I still play Reeves Mouthpieces exclusively. The biggest help for me has always been the expert advice of the fine Trumpet Players that have worked there (first Bob himself then K. O. Skinsness, currently President of Stomvi USA and others since) in finding the perfect solution to my need, somehow, all ending with a 41 Rim (the modern version of my original #1 rim). All of the bottoms I use are different depending on the horn and the necessary style, but still pretty much the same feel on my face. I play more Classical Trumpet now which is very different than my beginnings, but I still use Reeves Mouthpieces exclusively because they work for me.

Short answer: Find a piece that feels comfortable, produces the sound you are looking for and put lots of time in making this setup yours. Don't mess around with trying other pieces out after that just because someone else says it works for them. Then, get as much "face time" as you can on playing what you play everyday. The end result, at least for me, has been 40+ years of getting the sound that is in my head in the most efficient way! Like everything that demands consistent results, daily work is a requirement.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's ask an important question. At least it is to me. What are you going to plug the mouthpiece into? What kind of music are you playing?
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AwesomeDad
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Joined: 22 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Let's ask an important question. At least it is to me. What are you going to plug the mouthpiece into? What kind of music are you playing?

Good question, I'm basically coming back to play with my daughter who is just starting. If I have my preference I'd stay with Dixieland and jazz with a little gospel on occasion. But for now just working on a good sound and showing her some basics.

JJ
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What horn are you playing?
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curry has been mentioned. I found the Flip Oakes 10C rim to be really comfortable, and ordered it on something else. Mark responded by saying he likes that one too, and made it.

Patrick rims are also great.
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AwesomeDad
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
What horn are you playing?
king silver flair for now...

JJ
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AwesomeDad wrote:
Richard III wrote:
What horn are you playing?
king silver flair for now...

JJ


So for mouthpiece consideration that is important. The King is a free-blowing horn. Resistance should be considered when choosing the mouthpiece. So with that in mind, what would the brain trust here recommend?
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Bflatman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be the one.

To me comfort is not just down to the mouthpiece its also down to the playing style. When I shift from a cushion rim to a rim with sharp bite I feel the bite but it aint a problem for me unless I use too much pressure.

It is right to search for a mouthpiece that is right and feels right but I have played a yamaha 16e4 and find it comfortable, I know my experience means nothing as an indicator for other players, but I would check you are not using too much pressure before changing gear.

Some players end up using extreme pressure without realising it and other problems can then appear not just comfort issues.

Pressure may be a hidden culprit here.
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AwesomeDad
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Joined: 22 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bflatman wrote:
I will be the one.

To me comfort is not just down to the mouthpiece its also down to the playing style. When I shift from a cushion rim to a rim with sharp bite I feel the bite but it aint a problem for me unless I use too much pressure.

It is right to search for a mouthpiece that is right and feels right but I have played a yamaha 16e4 and find it comfortable, I know my experience means nothing as an indicator for other players, but I would check you are not using too much pressure before changing gear.

Some players end up using extreme pressure without realising it and other problems can then appear not just comfort issues.

Pressure may be a hidden culprit here.

Ok very valid points,
Now here is the results of my play testing today.
I tried the following mouthpieces
Yamaha 14B4 and Bobby shew jazz series
Schilke 14a4?
Bach 3C and megatone 3C
A couple 5C's just for comparison
And the consensus is by far I liked the megatone 3C the best.
Now I know that's a love/Hate mouthpiece for the group but the comfort, sound, range, endurance was all noticeably better.
So before I purchase should there have been that much of a difference between that and the regular 3C?
Side note: not giving up on my 16C4 but will try it later on after I develop my sound more.
Also the sales guy was a trumpet player and I let him check out my flair and he really liked it. He made it sound like where I hope to be eventually.

JJ
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AwesomeDad wrote:

So before I purchase should there have been that much of a difference between that and the regular 3C?


The short answer is... there shouldn't be a massive difference - they're slightly different (the megatone has a sliiightly bigger throat) but there will be subtle diffences that could make them noticeably different...
heck, there can be subtle differences between 2 normal 3c's or 2 normal megatone 3c's too for that matter.

It could be that the regular and the megatone you tried were from different batches (especially if the megatone had sat on the shelf a while - they're not that popular these days)... it could be that the rims were ever so slightly different (even though they're not supposed to be).

Equally it could be that the shank dimensions were ever so slightly different and that the megatone simply gapped better on your particular trumpet (I'm not sure this is necessarily agreed upon, but I find correct gap definitely stabilises everything - that insufficient gap can cause my chops to fall into the cup more and then the bite comes into play more).


It could be next to anything, really.... but the first rule (in 99% of cases) ought to be "don't argue with what works".
If that particular megatone 3c brought the stars into alignment for you, don't mess around ordering one off the net for cheaper (it could be noticeably different - enough to cause problems), you should buy THAT megatone 3c and just get on with using it.
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AwesomeDad
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
AwesomeDad wrote:

So before I purchase should there have been that much of a difference between that and the regular 3C?


The short answer is... there shouldn't be a massive difference - they're slightly different (the megatone has a sliiightly bigger throat) but there will be subtle diffences that could make them noticeably different...
heck, there can be subtle differences between 2 normal 3c's or 2 normal megatone 3c's too for that matter.

It could be that the regular and the megatone you tried were from different batches (especially if the megatone had sat on the shelf a while - they're not that popular these days)... it could be that the rims were ever so slightly different (even though they're not supposed to be).

Equally it could be that the shank dimensions were ever so slightly different and that the megatone simply gapped better on your particular trumpet (I'm not sure this is necessarily agreed upon, but I find correct gap definitely stabilises everything - that insufficient gap can cause my chops to fall into the cup more and then the bite comes into play more).


It could be next to anything, really.... but the first rule (in 99% of cases) ought to be "don't argue with what works".
If that particular megatone 3c brought the stars into alignment for you, don't mess around ordering one off the net for cheaper (it could be noticeably different - enough to cause problems), you should buy THAT megatone 3c and just get on with using it.

Never even considered all of that lol guess I'll be going back to the store then...I was going to order one.

JJ
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do yourself a favor. Get the mouthpiece you like the best and do not post anything about it here for two weeks. Don't even read anything after this post.
Work with it and then let us know your progress.
R. Tomasek
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Locutus2k
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Location: Rome, Italy

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played for many years on flat or semi-flat rims and thought they were the most comfortable rims in the world (think vintage Giardinelli, Curry 2 rims even Warburton rims). I've tried out of curiosity a totally different rim, the Curry #5 that many find too "thin" or sharp and is in the "rounded" type of rims just the opposite of what i've used all my life and Wham! my endurance doubled, my sound opens up bigger than ever and so on.
So, the suggestion is: try as many rims as possible and find "the one" that fits you. General rules are a point to start but you everyone's different.
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