Martin trumpet: Committee + Imperial ?

fblues · Last edited by fblues on Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:33 pm; edited 2 times in total

Hi,

I have recently won a bid on Ebay for a trumpet.
It looked like a committee valve section for me although I have never seen the real committee trumpet.
After receiving the trumpet, I have got mixed feelings, my initial thought was since the price was relatively low ($600), I could get a committee bell later in order to restore it.
But, now I am realizing that it might not be that easy to find out the bell with my limited budget.
(I have posted a thread to find out the bell on the marketplace.
Actually, a gentleman responded but my offer ($300) was rejected..)

Maybe, it was not a good idea and I was too greedy to have the trumpet with a lower price.
$600 is already a lot for me and it might turn out to be putting more money in the end than buying a whole one.
Still, another option for me is to fix the bell and use the trumpet in itself.

I just was wondering other people's opinion.
Let me add some links for pics..
If this is not even a committee valve section, then...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2VAhFwnALj0b3JjSU00NjdUSEE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2VAhFwnALj0blRmbzZwYTJRZXM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2VAhFwnALj0NlQ2akFBR21TRTg/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2VAhFwnALj0TmpCeVZSY0h0Y0E/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2VAhFwnALj0bm8zWWtfX01pV2M/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2VAhFwnALj0bmtnTW1MUlFubE0/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2VAhFwnALj0MHFHME9GU2YxNTQ/view?usp=sharing

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

It looks like a Martin Committee Deluxe that had the bell replaced with a Martin Imperial bell. I would anticipate that it will be very difficult to find a Martin Committee bell of the same vintage as the body of the horn so that, when the bell is installed, everything is period correct.

If you paid only $600 for the horn and you found the correct bell and it cost another $600 (for a total investment of $1200 + labor to install the bell) that would still be cheap for a Martin Committee Deluxe in decent mechanical condition especially if the serial number is in the most desirable range (under 200,000 - I can't tell from your photos what the serial number is). A pristine Martin Committee Deluxe of the most desired vintage is a $3,000+ horn. So, maybe you should reconsider what you're willing to offer for the bell.
_________________
HERMOKIWI

Zman · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:02 am Post subject:

I wondered who ended up with that horn......
Yes, this looks to be a Martin Committee Valve block, braces etc and a replacement bell. What's the serial? - we can anticipate year of manufacture from that.
The bigger issue to me looks to be the damaged lead pipe - you might want to have that fixed first, and perhaps have the bell repaired and then try it out.
Does the horn play well as is?
_________________
Martins:
HC Committee #2
HC Imperial #3 LB & #4 XL Bore
Deluxe Committee Bb, C & Eb
Taylor Chicago II Lite
Yamaha 8335LA

www.thebrasscellar.com
www.facebook.com/thebrasscellar
www.youtube.com/channel/UCZk1sIuyVsQzrbsl7HfIfKw/

fblues · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:42 am Post subject:

Thanks for the responses.
It has the serial #199.XXX.

I have realized my offer for the bell was too low.
I might ask him again following your suggestion.
He said it is a committee bell around 50's.

Yes, I also need to fix the leadpipe.
Since I am three hours distance from Atlanta,
I could visit Mr. Ita's brassinstrumentworkshop for the repair.
But, how much should I expect to replace the bell?

I tried it but felt dizzy due to the smell.
Also, I have no criterion for the comparison
without having any previous experience of committee.

Zman · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:23 am Post subject:

Sorry to hijack the thread, but If there is someone selling a Martin Committee Bell on here - I'd be interested in discussing

_________________
Martins:
HC Committee #2
HC Imperial #3 LB & #4 XL Bore
Deluxe Committee Bb, C & Eb
Taylor Chicago II Lite
Yamaha 8335LA

www.thebrasscellar.com
www.facebook.com/thebrasscellar
www.youtube.com/channel/UCZk1sIuyVsQzrbsl7HfIfKw/

Dr. Manhattan · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:43 am Post subject: Martin Committee

Hello,
The horn you won has a lot of potential!

Expect to put some $$ into it, but once it is done you will have a very nice Martin Committee for a very decent price.

About a year ago, I won a Martin Committee LB on eBay for about the same price. It also had an old Indiana bell (with a crack in it) attached instead of the Committee bell and had Conn bell braces as well. I sent it Landress Brass along with some Martin committee parts and LB bell I purchased from a gentlemen in Germany. Josh does amazing work!!! I couldn't believe this was the same horn I sent in to get repaired.

There are several really great repairmen you can send the horn to. I am sure you will get a lot of recommendations. My recommendation is Josh Landress.

Best of luck!
Hope you post pics of the horn after it gets repaired!
_________________
Several Trumpets and Flugelhorns!
Trying to thin the small herd!!

fblues · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the recommendation, Dr. Manhattan.
I have heard his name as well!
I feel like I was lucky to get this horn.

Now, I become curious about the bells of committee trumpets.
Does the 50's committee deluxe trumpet have a different bell from the committee trumpet of the same era?
If there is no "practical" difference (like merely with or without engraving),
I will just try to get any committee bell of the similar era.

But still, the question is for just in case.
I believe any kinds of committee bell are quite hard to get.

Robert Rowe · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject:

I have Committee bells.
Older (used), as well as N.O.S. Some engraved, some not engraved.

For sale?
Depends. (I am surley, of late).

I prefer to trade ... sometimes. If you message me, I may not respond promptly.

Dr. Manhattan · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:58 pm Post subject: Martin Committee

I believe the difference between a Deluxe Committee and a regular committee is in the nickel inner slides and nickel trim. I might be wrong, but I think the bell is the same for both, just one with more engraving.
You can search the forum or google "Vintage Martin Committee Bell Size Variation" and you should see the post. There is a gentleman who goes by "Journeyman." He knows an awful lot about Martins in general and Bells.
Read through and see what he has to say.

I would also ask Josh Landress or any other top repairmen.
Josh is into the history and facts of pretty most horn types.

There is another gentleman who posts in this forum - James Becker.
I believe he is with Osmun Music (sorry if I am wrong). He really seems to know alot about Martins as well. I think both Josh and James have worked on Wallace Roney's trumpets.

When I bought the New Old Stock Large Bore bell, I originally was going to just keep it as a spare in case something happened to the bell on my first Martin. Then I won the Martin I mentioned earlier and paired the bell with that horn. I have no idea if the bell was from the same era as the horn. But I can say it plays really well.... And its gorgeous too!!!

_________________
Several Trumpets and Flugelhorns!
Trying to thin the small herd!!

fblues · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the information!
It feels like I have received a lot of reading assignments.
But, this is still fun HW to me.
Will definitely read those and ask experts' thoughts.

It seems that I am having a higher chance to get the bell.
I love this forum...

Hope it can be realized so that I can post some pics of the repaired horn.

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

The bell on the Deluxe model is the same design as the bell on the standard model. The Deluxe bell simply has more engraving. If you're going to restore this horn to original specifications you need a Deluxe bell.
_________________
HERMOKIWI

James Becker · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:08 am Post subject:

Sherry Huntey at Artistic Engraving does a faithful MartinCommittee Deluxe pattern found here:

http://www.artisticengraving.com/trumpets-cornets

It's no wonder since she was trained by the very craftsmen that did the hand engraving at Martin.

I hope this is helpful.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:33 am Post subject:

Jim, if this was to be included in a complete restoration, (valve alignment, refinishing, engraving), who would that all involve?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

James Becker · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:19 am Post subject:

mike ansberry · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:20 am Post subject:

How does it play as is? If it plays great, I wouldn't mess with it. Have the bell fixed.
_________________
Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:23 am Post subject:

Thanks, Jim.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

LittleRusty · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:36 am Post subject:

fblues · Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:31 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the great comments.

I decided to find out a committee bell as the horn anyway requires some repairs here and there.
Also, I believe it is meaningful to restore this kind of horn though I need to spend some money and time on it.

As expected, it is hard to get the bell indeed.
I contacted Robert and other people but no response so far.
But, according to James, I could just get a normal committee bell and add engraving when I can raise some money...

Anyway, I am still working on this and planning to add pics at the end of this post!