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Tonguing and Thibaud's Method



 
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hvand
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Tonguing and Thibaud's Method Reply with quote

I have been practicing out of Pierre Thibaud's Method for the Advanced Trumpeter and there are a number exercises that work on mixing up your tonguing syllables. For example,
1) TTK TTK going down a scale and KTT KTT going up
2) TTK TTK, TKT, TKT, KTT KTT, and TKT KTK
3) TKTK TKTK and KTKT KTKT

There have been a few instances that I have used alternate patterns and I usually practice them when it shows up in the music. Do any of you routinely practice alternate patterns? How helpful has it been?

Hank
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have Thibaud's method, but I've been doing lots of double-tonguing exercises for the past few weeks, and I've run across 2 other methods that mix up the syllables like that: Franquin Complete Method and Irons 27 Groups of Exercises.

Franquin wrote over 3 pages of text explanation and guidance for his multiple-tonguing exercises. There's lots of good info in there. As far as inverting the syllables, Franquin recommended this to make it so that the ka becomes more independent and imitates the ta no matter the sequence.

I've been doing these exercises. Honestly, I don't think the inversion has helped my speed very much. They have helped make the articulation a little bit smoother and more even, and they get my mind out of a rut that the patterns have to go a certain way—or they just confuse me... haven't decided yet.

Franquin has other multiple-tonguing exercises and advice that have helped me improve speed, especially double-dotted eighth and 32nd note patterns that group doubles in short rapid-fire bursts, played with a continuous unbroken sound and light articulation, again inverting the sequence of syllables back and forth.

I recall reading that Thibaud was an advocate of the Franquin Method, so maybe he prescribed these patterns in his book for similar reasons.
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hvand
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks - I'll have to get Franquin's book. (I can't believe there's a method book I don't have ) I guess the goal is to get the K and T to sound so similar that the listener does not know what order you are using.
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, exactly... he said something like that too.
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hackney_wick
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hvand wrote:
(I can't believe there's a method book I don't have )


Before you consider buying it you can review it in its entirety here http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k311006c.

For tongueing look especially at pages 235-239, 245, 249-250 and 252-253 and compare with Thibaud.

The text is in French, qPress does an e-version in English.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do any of you routinely practice alternate patterns? How helpful has it been?


In John Daniel's wonderful "Special Studies" he points out that the three historically "acceptable" patterns for triple tonguing each have accent and rhythmic characteristics that we should be mindful of. For example, he suggests that when using t-t-k the second note tends to be "under pronounced and rhythmically late."

Daniel recommends practicing all three patterns and using whichever one works best for a given situation. I do so, and find it useful, but tend to focus mainly on t-t-k, making that as smooth and even as possible.

Related to this, when I work on single tonguing I spend an equal amount of time on T and on K. I find that to be very beneficial.
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