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Approach to piccolo intonation



 
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dan_e10
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Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Approach to piccolo intonation Reply with quote

I have a Kanstul picc that I bought a little over 20 years ago. I'm not sure if it predates the 920 model, or if it basically is a 920. Anyway, I have always needed to pull the A leadpipe all the way in, or nearly all the way in to bring it up to pitch. There was an organ I played along with a couple of times that was slightly sharp. I don't remember if I just pulled the A pipe all the way in or ended up using the Bflat leadpipe to get in tune with that organ. I like the A leadpipe better than the Bflat leadpipe when playing the horn on the A side.

I remember a discussion years ago, maybe here but I couldn't find it, and it seemed like the consensus was that these horns do tend to play slightly flat. Some recommendations were that the Blackburn leadpipe improved things. One suggested a part of the solution was in their approach to the horn. I'm wondering what this might mean other than trying to lip everything up slightly. Any thoughts on this? BTW, I've always played this horn with a Bach 7e and liked the sound and feel with that mouthpiece.
Dan
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Blackburn pipe really works on these instruments, but if it is flat, the only thing to do is push in, or use a shorter shank. or a more open backbone in the mpc, possibly.

To oil everything up is a recipe for disaster!

cheers

Andy
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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What shank mouthpiece does it take?

If trumpet shank, you may look into short shank mouthpieces, such as those by Reeves, Pickett, Monette. I'm sure there are others. You could probably even get a Curry DE cup in the appropriate size in a short shank. The DE cup is designated 'P' for piccolo trumpet if on a cornet shank.
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Nonsense Eliminator
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Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as "approach to the horn" goes, it could be that you're trying to make it sound like a big trumpet and therefore playing on the tubby (i.e. flat) side of the sound. Obviously, deliberately lipping things up isn't the answer, but without hearing you play or knowing anything about you, my first instinct for solutions on the player's end is striving for a lighter, more brilliant, falsetto-like sound.

Or maybe the horn is flat, in which case, put the slide where you have to. In fact, no matter what, put the slide wherever you have to -- piccolo trumpet is enough work without deliberately make life difficult for yourself.
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snichols
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Related to what has already been said, I would suggest using a cornet version of your mouthpiece if you're not already. If it takes trumpet shank, use an adapter. A used cornet piece + adapter is probably the cheapest experiment to try first, before you buy a new mouthpiece and pay to have it opened up...

Also, you may not even need to use the A leadpipe. My 9830 came with an A and a Bb pipe, but the Bb pipe was long enough to play in both keys, so my A pipe sat on the shelf. The Bb pipe pulled out to A played just fine... Okay, so I guess that's technically the cheapest experiment...
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dan_e10
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Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input everyone. I didn't make it clear before, this horn came with the cornet shank. I did try using the Bflat pipe pulled out to the point that the horn played in A. I may have done this the times I played with a slightly sharp organ, but I don't remember. This works, however I like the way the horn plays with the A pipe in A a lot better than the Bflat pipe pulled out to A. The horn just feels a bit stuffier to me with the Bflat pipe pulled out to A compared to the A pipe itself.
Dan
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found recently that using two different mouthpieces, one for the A side, another for the B side has helped quite a bit with being lower on the Bb side of the horn.

These little beasts take a lot of experimentation.
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Don Herman rev2
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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having to relearn the wee beastie and it is making me pay for neglecting it for a few months. Tim Wendt offered the advice ages ago to "be gentle, make it your friend" and to think of backing off, playing lightly, and "blowing over" the notes. It seems to help. I find I am flat starting out again and gradually the pitch is coming up without tension and all that jazz.

But yeah, what real trumpet player could resist the temptation to get a new toy... James Becker at Osmun also offers pipes.
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trumpetlane
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Ooltewah, TN

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play on a Getzen Eterna 940 pic and am struggling with intonation only on the Bb side. My low open C and low B are flat while my open G is a bit sharp! Does anyone have any suggestions for this? I have a trumpet shank and play on a Stork 3P mouthpiece. I do not have a Blackburn leadpipe or anything, just the standard. Can a Blackburn pipe make a difference in this case?
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James Becker
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worth mentioning, sometime in the mid to late 80's Getzen changed the secondary pipe (or elbow) of the 940 piccolo from cylindrical to tapered. Getzen piccolos without this taper can be upgraded, and we have these parts on hand to make this change in silver plate and brass.

Combined with one of our aftermarket Osmun Bb or A pipes can really improve pitch and response. Available here http://www.osmun.com/osmun-piccolo-trumpet-mouthpipe.html

I hope this is helpful.
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