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dan_e10 Regular Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2012 Posts: 27
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: Approach to piccolo intonation |
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I have a Kanstul picc that I bought a little over 20 years ago. I'm not sure if it predates the 920 model, or if it basically is a 920. Anyway, I have always needed to pull the A leadpipe all the way in, or nearly all the way in to bring it up to pitch. There was an organ I played along with a couple of times that was slightly sharp. I don't remember if I just pulled the A pipe all the way in or ended up using the Bflat leadpipe to get in tune with that organ. I like the A leadpipe better than the Bflat leadpipe when playing the horn on the A side.
I remember a discussion years ago, maybe here but I couldn't find it, and it seemed like the consensus was that these horns do tend to play slightly flat. Some recommendations were that the Blackburn leadpipe improved things. One suggested a part of the solution was in their approach to the horn. I'm wondering what this might mean other than trying to lip everything up slightly. Any thoughts on this? BTW, I've always played this horn with a Bach 7e and liked the sound and feel with that mouthpiece.
Dan |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:53 am Post subject: |
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A Blackburn pipe really works on these instruments, but if it is flat, the only thing to do is push in, or use a shorter shank. or a more open backbone in the mpc, possibly.
To oil everything up is a recipe for disaster!
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1102 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: |
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What shank mouthpiece does it take?
If trumpet shank, you may look into short shank mouthpieces, such as those by Reeves, Pickett, Monette. I'm sure there are others. You could probably even get a Curry DE cup in the appropriate size in a short shank. The DE cup is designated 'P' for piccolo trumpet if on a cornet shank. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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Nonsense Eliminator Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 5212 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: |
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As far as "approach to the horn" goes, it could be that you're trying to make it sound like a big trumpet and therefore playing on the tubby (i.e. flat) side of the sound. Obviously, deliberately lipping things up isn't the answer, but without hearing you play or knowing anything about you, my first instinct for solutions on the player's end is striving for a lighter, more brilliant, falsetto-like sound.
Or maybe the horn is flat, in which case, put the slide where you have to. In fact, no matter what, put the slide wherever you have to -- piccolo trumpet is enough work without deliberately make life difficult for yourself. _________________ Richard Sandals
NBO |
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snichols Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Posts: 586 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Related to what has already been said, I would suggest using a cornet version of your mouthpiece if you're not already. If it takes trumpet shank, use an adapter. A used cornet piece + adapter is probably the cheapest experiment to try first, before you buy a new mouthpiece and pay to have it opened up...
Also, you may not even need to use the A leadpipe. My 9830 came with an A and a Bb pipe, but the Bb pipe was long enough to play in both keys, so my A pipe sat on the shelf. The Bb pipe pulled out to A played just fine... Okay, so I guess that's technically the cheapest experiment... |
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dan_e10 Regular Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2012 Posts: 27
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input everyone. I didn't make it clear before, this horn came with the cornet shank. I did try using the Bflat pipe pulled out to the point that the horn played in A. I may have done this the times I played with a slightly sharp organ, but I don't remember. This works, however I like the way the horn plays with the A pipe in A a lot better than the Bflat pipe pulled out to A. The horn just feels a bit stuffier to me with the Bflat pipe pulled out to A compared to the A pipe itself.
Dan |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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I have found recently that using two different mouthpieces, one for the A side, another for the B side has helped quite a bit with being lower on the Bb side of the horn.
These little beasts take a lot of experimentation. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'm having to relearn the wee beastie and it is making me pay for neglecting it for a few months. Tim Wendt offered the advice ages ago to "be gentle, make it your friend" and to think of backing off, playing lightly, and "blowing over" the notes. It seems to help. I find I am flat starting out again and gradually the pitch is coming up without tension and all that jazz.
But yeah, what real trumpet player could resist the temptation to get a new toy... James Becker at Osmun also offers pipes. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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trumpetlane Regular Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Posts: 49 Location: Ooltewah, TN
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:37 am Post subject: |
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I play on a Getzen Eterna 940 pic and am struggling with intonation only on the Bb side. My low open C and low B are flat while my open G is a bit sharp! Does anyone have any suggestions for this? I have a trumpet shank and play on a Stork 3P mouthpiece. I do not have a Blackburn leadpipe or anything, just the standard. Can a Blackburn pipe make a difference in this case? _________________ Gregory Lindquist
Educator, Conductor, Performer
Bb - XO 1602S-R
C - Jupiter XO 1624s
D - Yamaha YTR-751
Cornet - Yamaha YCR-231
Flugel - Getzen 895 Eterna
Pic - Getzen 940 Eterna w/ Blackburn leadpipes
Stork Vacchiano Mouthpieces |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Worth mentioning, sometime in the mid to late 80's Getzen changed the secondary pipe (or elbow) of the 940 piccolo from cylindrical to tapered. Getzen piccolos without this taper can be upgraded, and we have these parts on hand to make this change in silver plate and brass.
Combined with one of our aftermarket Osmun Bb or A pipes can really improve pitch and response. Available here http://www.osmun.com/osmun-piccolo-trumpet-mouthpipe.html
I hope this is helpful. _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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