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OldHorn Regular Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 Posts: 90
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: How long does it take to come back? |
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Just wondering what type time frame comeback players have experienced.
I was a session player and played shows for different artists. I put the horn down in the mid-90's and put my energies to arranging and orchestration instead.
Now at 64, I just started playing flugel again, not trumpet. I started out practicing 15 minutes a day and am slowly increasing that. I'd like to get to a place where I can play melodies comfortably in the staff, maybe an occasional G above the staff.
How long did it take you to reach that point? 6 months, a year, more? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9032 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: |
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I learned a long time ago that it's individual. How long does it take? As long as it takes.
But one thing is important to your question is that is how efficient was your breathing and how solid was your embouchure was before.
It sounds like you were doing well, so just make sure you don't take it any quicker than you have to. In other words, don't be (destructively) impatient.
And make sure you have good breathing and breath support. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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WxJeff Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 10 Dec 2002 Posts: 2485 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Personal experience:
Background: decent high school player who didn't really apply himself, put the horn down for 25 years, now back 12 or so.
90 days: etudes/melodies within the staff as you described, top of the staff G ok but not effortless. Wife allowed me out of the basement
six months: did an embouchure change with a local pro / teacher. Affected range development but was definitely a short term sacrifice for long term gain.
one year: able to play 2nd part for 90 minute church orchestra practice at which time chops are gone. range up to Bb above the staff. Better musicianship than ever in high school due to maturity / group with which I was playing.
Endurance is still the challenge, and honestly I don't practice nearly as much as some of the other guys who will post. _________________ Kanstul F Besson International 800 Bb
Jupiter SCR-520 |
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SSmith1226 Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2016 Posts: 104 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I am 69 years old two years into my comeback after a 44 year layoff. I played for 16 years before my layoff started and was always an amateur. It took me six months to get to a G above the staff and at one year I could squeal out C above the staff. At two years, D above the staff,in the privacy of my home,is reliable.. As part of my daily routine, I play two octive scales in all keys and can generally squeal out F above high C and on several occasions have squeezed out notes as high as double high C. Currently the notes above D above the staff are not usable. I play 2nd and 3rd trumpet in community Bands, and have helped out in first trumpet when the position was thin. At one and one half years into my comeback I found myself playing Principal Trumpet in a series of orchestra concerts in St. Petersburg, Russia due to illness of the Principal Trumpet Player. That was an interesting experience playing in Marinski Concert Hall as well as other venues, but needless to say my playing was not up to that standard. _________________ Steve Smith |
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deleted_user_680e93b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: How long does it take to come back? |
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OldHorn wrote: | Just wondering what type time frame comeback players have experienced.
I was a session player and played shows for different artists. I put the horn down in the mid-90's and put my energies to arranging and orchestration instead.
Now at 64, I just started playing flugel again, not trumpet. I started out practicing 15 minutes a day and am slowly increasing that. I'd like to get to a place where I can play melodies comfortably in the staff, maybe an occasional G above the staff.
How long did it take you to reach that point? 6 months, a year, more? |
hey old,
It doesn't take long, to play G on top of the staff, If you were a sessions player, your should still be able to do that, maybe not as good as you once did, but a g on top of the staff should be within a month at the longest. As a session player you must have had a daily routine. somehting you did day in and day out, no matter what. thats all you have to do again to get your chops back. For me its a variation on a Bill Adam routine that always gets me back. Lately because of work, i have almost 0 time on the horn, a couple of days of my daily routine, brings everything back, up to F# above high c, and i was never a session player, so this will be cake for you. Do your routine everyday, and you'll be rippin' in no time at all.
regards,
tom |
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gwood66 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I am amateur who stopped playing following high school and took it up again at 49. I am a little over 2 years in to my comeback. Here is my approximately timeline:
- Practiced aimlessly for the first couple of months and had to strain for anything above 3rd space C.
- Started taking lessons and had a solid G on the staff by 6 months.
- By 9 months I could reliable play a high C.
- By the one year point I could play as high as a G above High C.
There is an article David Brown on the ITG website that describes what to expect during a comeback. I found it to be pretty accurate based on m experience.
http://trumpetguild.org/pedagogy/category/8-articles-and-essays |
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OldHorn Regular Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 Posts: 90
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everybody for your replies. I do appreciate it.
I started back a month ago and things have improved greatly since that first night I put the horn to my chops. It's just very frustrating, I can feel the notes inside, but the muscles aren't strong enough to play what I hear.
Still, the time frames that you've experienced, make me feel better. I've agreed to a project in June where I'll be playing the flugel. Still, I'll be writing the charts so I can write around my limitations if need be. For me it's helpful to set goals and this one feels doable. |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Just don't rush things. I played for 12 years ( 1953-65 ) then didn't play again until March 2016. I'm in my eighties so the face muscles aren't the ones I played with back in the day. It took me about 7 months ( 90 minute practice every morning and 60 minutes playing tunes in the afternoon ) to get to the point where I could join and play first chair with a local community band. I was playing a comfortable high C by month 5 and now can add a couple more notes to that. I purposely play music with lots of top line Fs , as well as Gs and As above the staff. Endurance has gone from 20 minutes to well over an hour but still has a way to go. Two octave lip slurs have helped me get where I am as far as endurance goes. It all takes time and tenacity but you can do it if you really want to. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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ButchA Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2008 Posts: 139 Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:33 am Post subject: |
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George is absolutely correct... Don't rush things!
As seen in that rambling video that I made (see the thread about my comeback player video), it takes while to redevelop your embouchure and get your chops back. I started it out school band in the late 60's and well into the 70's. Then sadly my trumpet fell by the wayside as I was drawn more towards loud rock 'n roll and electric guitar playing.
Once my daughters got into school band (woodwinds) in the 90's, I got my trumpet back out. I took me about 6 months to get back into playing semi-decent. I could only hit the G at the top of the staff and that was it. I knew well enough not to push it, so I gradually worked my way back over the following years.
Another thing I learned real quick is that a new mouthpiece can really help with being a "comeback player". I can't play on a 7C or anything smaller like a 10C or something like that. They don't work for me. I have to have something larger around the 3C size. But then that's just me.... What works for me, might not work for you, but it might be worth a try. _________________ 1967 Holton Collegiate Trumpet --> my grade school band trumpet. I just can't part with it!
1975 Olds Ambassador Cornet --> my new/used eBay special. Sounds great!
2018 Regiment WI-800 Bugle --> my inexpensive Chinese made bugle from Amazon. |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Started 2.5 years ago after 47 years off and had a g 1st time I played. But Ive been working the last 30 months getting that hi G I usedta have and its still not there all the time. I work fairly hard and do exercises by all the usual suspects. Seems youve just forgotten some things you used to know, if you just do corner and tongue level and breathing exercises while just getting back to playing you should get over this quickly. In my case much of the info available now is new to me and I just take what I can make work and crap can the rest.
Good luck
Rod |
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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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I played from 5th grade to High School. When I started High School in 1975 I was put on a Bach 1.5C and taught to play with a flat chin embochure, which killed all my range above the staff. My senior of HS year I switched to French Horn and spent my freshmen year as a music major on Horn at Univ of Oregon. Horn wasnt what I wanted to do I quit music all together and became a USAF pilotmy original dream.
The summer of 2001, while still active duty USAF, I came back to trumpet. I knew what didnt work for mebig MPs and a flat chin so I started researching. Was immediately able to play to High C but had no tone, endurance, and did not play in tune. In 2002 I played second trumpet in a church praise bandbadly. In 2003 I discovered Pops and took my first lesson from him.
In 2006 I finally played a High G but I still struggled with intonation. In 2008 I started playing in a community jazz band and started taking lessons from a local pro. I improved in jazz style and reading. My local teacher was great with everything except teaching range and endurance, but I still had Pops for that. I went through a disasterous time in 2008 trying to make Monette MPs work to me. Sometime around 2009 I went to Wedge MPs and havent looked back. I stayed playing lead in my jazz band and I started performing High Gs in 2010 or 2011. I still had intonation issues above the staff. I had a lesson with Roger Ingram in 2012 and picked up some important tips, th biggest being was his emphasis on tusting my projection and not overblowing.
I started downsizing my MPs and started a search for the right trumpet. Each step smaller in MP improved my playing. Most advice I had received on trumpets was wrong for me and I finally settled on Flip Oakes Wild Things by 2012. It was then I was able to play in tune across my entire range.
In 2015 I performed double high Cs a few times at the end of Count Bubba. I also performed the Send in the Clowns solo from Kenton 76. In 2017 I performed the high Solos from Maynards McArthur Park.
I am still an amateur hack. My first attempts at both the Clowns Solo and McArthur were rough but I did improve. I still need to work on my lead style, learn to read better, and learn to improvise.
On the good side I no longer fight the trumpet. I am able to diagnose what happens mechanics wise when things fall off. I consider myslf a solid High G/A AMATUER player who ocassionally gets a double C. I can do all that for around two hours of endurance. I practice about two hours in the evening when I dont have a gig or a rehearsal. That is all the time I have available since I still have a full-time job.
I dont think a player has to take as long as I did14 years to performing DHC. I think someone willing to study and learn HOW to practice and who is willing to devote two hours a day could get there in half the time or less. Conversely, if one thinks that mindlessly playing the trumpet will get them anywhere, they better just get lucky and happen to do things right. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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gmorrell New Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2018 Posts: 1
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: |
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My first post as a member.
After a 20 year break I picked up horn and started in at age 48. This site was very helpful. I still do not have the high school high chops I once did but that was not my goal starting back up.
Patience, consistent practice schedule, playing with others of all levels has helped me , always with room for improvement. |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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After 14 years of not playing, I am now 3 1/2 years into playing daily again after retirement from my day gig. The first few weeks back were difficult just getting my head back in the game. I am a Type IV A (upstream) player, so actually producing a good sound seemed to fall right back in place. Range was never a real problem and hasn't caused any problems this time out. Everything above High C up to G works consistently, pretty much like when I was much younger and now with more intelligent pacing and playing, my lower range is very consistent as well. Getting back into the habit of regular and, more importantly, intelligent, effective practice was the real roadblock. I was thrust (semi-voluntarily) back into public performance within the first few weeks. More nerve inducing than I would have thought. Much trial and error and finally making a connection with a local Symphony player got me back on path. I began playing and traveling along side this very enthusiastic player in many venues with her keeping me very involved in Brass Ensemble, Chamber Orchestra, Symphony Orchestra, Concert Band, the whole kit and caboodle, anything and almost everything that she played in. Playing this style of trumpet was different for me since my previous experience was Big Bands, Latin Bands, R&B and Top 40 Bands for many decades. We talked trumpet and technique as well as getting to be friends. Our Spouses got to be friends as well so a social component came into play that keeps us connected in non performing roles, though we still end up talking shop a lot.
My comeback has been scary, pleasing, thought provoking, knowledge building, but mostly, very active physically, mentally and musically challenging in my older years. The performances and relationships are most rewarding and I have gained immensely from the experience. Hope that every Comeback Player finds it as rewarding as I have.
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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ehammarlund Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 23
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:54 am Post subject: |
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After 12 solid years on and 25 year off, I'm just getting back into it. It's been a couple of weeks; I can only hold practices for ~20 minutes. No problems at all with in-staff C or D; E's fine as a "drive-by" but not reliable for longer tones; tone decreases considerably as I go up and I can't quitehit G yet. |
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OldKing Regular Member
Joined: 26 May 2017 Posts: 89 Location: Boerne, TX
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:37 am Post subject: |
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When I picked it back up a couple of year ago, I just assumed it'd take the rest of my life. _________________ For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? - 1 Cor 14:8 |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:18 am Post subject: |
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I think it's probably break even for me right now. I'm not great on high notes, but never was. I have less stamina and am having breathing problems. But I also feel like a reset embouchure has been good for me, I have more of a sense of tone and rhythm and am better able to concentrate during practice. I'm less competitive and just enjoy playing more. |
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kozzicomma Regular Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2018 Posts: 39
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: My Experience So Far |
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I never really put the horn down for any longer than probably 4 years at a time, but it was always fairly detrimental to my playing and/or development that may have occurred during the periods I was playing. I was a trumpet major in school, 20+ years ago. I've studied with some good players over the years, but most of my comeback attempts were done without a lot of input from local pros (or any teacher for that matter), and from my experience this is a HUGE problem. I'm currently on my final comeback. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I intend this to be it, and I plan to continue to play for the rest of my life (I'm 43). I work as a mechanical engineer full time, so my playing is limited to 2-3 hours at night during the week and almost as much time as I want during weekends and breaks. I started back on the horn 5.5 months ago, going on 6. In my first month, i was struggling with everything but tone production at middle C and below. I had no endurance, no range, no flexibility, but I could sound pretty good in the staff for about 10 mins. 2 months in, I was playing up to around an A above the staff, but could in no way hold the note for longer than a half note at quarter = 60 without it starting to crack and/or getting a double buzz. Also, this applies to everything above middle C, in that I couldn't sustain for very long without starting to crack, double buzz, etc. etc. I was getting pretty frustrated. In my third month, i began seeing a local pro. This is where things started to turn around. 4 months in, and I was playing up to a high C consistently and was able to hold notes above middle C for much longer than before. These advancements were due to several factors, e.g. "rethinking" my sound production, refining my aperture, breathing, etc. all as a result of my teacher's instruction. Without it, i may have taken quadruple the time to figure it out on my own. At almost 6 months, I'm really getting to focus mostly on making music. My range and endurance are still not what they used to be (used to have a solid high A, occasional double C), but my sound, flexibility, etc. etc. is all WAY better than they used to be. I don't care about playing high notes like i used to. I'm more focused on regaining my endurance and playing with a beautiful sound with less effort, and this has been a very rewarding experience. I can't WAIT to see what a few years does to me! |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Kozzicomma,
If I might ask a question or two.
By middle C do you mean the third space C in the treble clef? I learned middle C as the C in the middle between the staves, but I do know some trumpeters call the octave above middle C.
Your A that you reference in “used to have a solid A” would be the A above the two ledger line high C, correct? |
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kozzicomma Regular Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2018 Posts: 39
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | Kozzicomma,
By middle C do you mean the third space C in the treble clef? I learned middle C as the C in the middle between the staves, but I do know some trumpeters call the octave above middle C. |
yeah, i mean third space C in the treble clef
LittleRusty wrote: | Your A that you reference in “used to have a solid A” would be the A above the two ledger line high C, correct? |
correct, i mean the A above high C. I should say the Bb was pretty solid too, but i rarely played it, probably never had music that used it. I played lead in my college big band and then played a lot of rock bands after school. B natural and double high C were rougher for me, i could hit them, but i wouldn't say i could depend on them all the time. |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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When I resumed playing after many years off, I found the mouthpiece would completely slip off my lips while playing sometimes. I knew it was due to not playing for a long time but good grief. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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