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Alex.Witt New Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 5 Location: Miami FL
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:42 am Post subject: Air Speed VS Air Strength |
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I've been studying with Richard Todd and we have gotten into the area of air. I know that this can be a hot topic issue but I'm curious about teaching this concept to younger students. Let me know what sort of ideas or methods you have used on your students. |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
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I suspect the answer is "it depends which one makes the student do it correctly" in the sense that it matters more that the instruction achieves it's desired effect than it does which word you use...
For me, personally, air "focus" works well, but it might not for everyone.
Some might hear "air strength" and start tanking up and overblowing; some might take "air speed" to mean blowing harder to create speed; etcetc.
The benefit of individual tuition is that a good teacher can tailor the approach to get the best results from you...
... To look for hard and fast rules is, almost by definition, to play the percentages and accept occasional misinterpretation. |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I think the best thing to do is to keep it simple, especially for younger players. Have the player say ah and eee and tell the player to pay attention to how their tongue moves to make these sounds.
Then, have the player whistle from a low pitch to a high pitch and again, have the student pay attention to the tongue movement.
Now, have the player do the same, buzzing a mouthpiece (low to high and back and forth), and again, tell the student to pay attention to how the tongue moves, and also tell the student to pay attention to how they need to blow harder to reach the higher pitches. With the mouthpiece introduced and the prerequisite formation of an embouchure, the teacher should also advise the student to pay attention to his or her lips and how they move to create a good, free vibration in the different registers.
Now have the student slur from a lower note to a higher note on the horn and again, tell the student to pay attention to how the tongue moves, and also, to pay attention to how one needs to blow harder for higher pitches.
At this point, advise the student that anytime they are playing flexibility exercises or slurring between intervals, they should notice and pay attention to how they move their tongue (arching up and forward) and blow harder for higher notes, and flatten the tongue and blow softer for the lower notes.
That's all that needs to be discussed. Talking about air speed is really not necessary, and to be honest, I'm not 100% convinced the actual velocity of the air passing through the lips is faster for higher notes (though I think it is). It doesn't matter if it is or isn't. What matters is for the student to learn the general movements of the tongue, (slight) movements of the lips, and changes in supplied air pressure when moving between various pitches on a brass instrument, and then, through proper, routine practice, to gain the knack, or feel of specifically how to do it.
I see you recently joined, and then made exactly 5 short posts in just eight minutes. I sure hope you don't turn out to be just another person who thinks that'll provide easy access to selling things in our Marketplace (which requires just 5 posts to participate as a seller). Because if so, you'll find out just like the others that try to do that, that no one will buy from you (hot newsflash: There's a Schilke E3L-4 in new condition that was listed on the marketplace last summer by a 5-poster-and done type for a fantastically low price - and it still hasn't sold).
Just did a little research. Are you Alex Witt the French Horn player from University of Florida? If so, that's a pretty heavy-duty audition you had to perform for the Frost School of Music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1JpiY-4LpA
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Sing loudly. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | ...I see you recently joined, and then made exactly 5 short posts in just eight minutes. I sure hope you don't turn out to be just another person who thinks that'll provide easy access to selling things in our Marketplace (which requires just 5 posts to participate as a seller). Because if so, you'll find out just like the others that try to do that, that no one will buy from you (hot newsflash: There's a Schilke E3L-4 in new condition that was listed on the marketplace last summer by a 5-poster-and done type for a fantastically low price - and it still hasn't sold)... |
Well, it turns out Alex Witt just wasted our time.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=102686&s=Custom-Built-Harrelson-Bravura-Jazz-Trumpet--Bb-
Another one... |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | John Mohan wrote: | ...I see you recently joined, and then made exactly 5 short posts in just eight minutes. I sure hope you don't turn out to be just another person who thinks that'll provide easy access to selling things in our Marketplace (which requires just 5 posts to participate as a seller). Because if so, you'll find out just like the others that try to do that, that no one will buy from you (hot newsflash: There's a Schilke E3L-4 in new condition that was listed on the marketplace last summer by a 5-poster-and done type for a fantastically low price - and it still hasn't sold)... |
Well, it turns out Alex Witt just wasted our time.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=102686&s=Custom-Built-Harrelson-Bravura-Jazz-Trumpet--Bb-
Another one... |
On the plus side... Even questions that have been done to death are searched for by visitors armed with Google.
So our answers might be wasted on the OP, but they'll probably help someone at some point (and we'll probably never know it) |
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trumpet56 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Air Strength to me means the volume and velocity of the air needed to overcome the resistance of the mouthpiece and trumpet to make the sound. If we use to much strength the sound will be harsh so its finding the balance with soft practice. The Air Speed is the velocity of the air we need to maintaining the pitches. |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I’m surprised none of the regular skeptics called this guy out before he posted in the marketplace... _________________ Kevin |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:36 am Post subject: |
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kevin_soda wrote: | I’m surprised none of the regular skeptics called this guy out before he posted in the marketplace... |
Perhaps I haven't earned the rank of regular skeptic yet, but I did point out his exactly five posts just 33 minutes after he started this topic thread with his fifth post. And I believe I beat his marketplace posting by 4 minutes.
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: |
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"Perhaps I haven't earned the rank of regular skeptic yet. . "
LOL! _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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gabriel127 Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 218 Location: Southern U.S.
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Whomever it is in that audition, he needs to pull in his tuning slide. --FLAT! |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | kevin_soda wrote: | I’m surprised none of the regular skeptics called this guy out before he posted in the marketplace... |
Perhaps I haven't earned the rank of regular skeptic yet, but I did point out his exactly five posts just 33 minutes after he started this topic thread with his fifth post. And I believe I beat his marketplace posting by 4 minutes.
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Ha! Nice work!🤪 I have to admit that I didn’t read your entire first post on this thread because it seemed to reasonable and honest to be skeptical. _________________ Kevin |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:54 am Post subject: |
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As a regular skeptic here (I think!😎), I would almost prefer that a five-post-buy-my-horn guy post something more obviously inane, at least people would not waste their time with detailed thoughtful responses like John did.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:22 am Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | John Mohan wrote: | ...I see you recently joined, and then made exactly 5 short posts in just eight minutes. I sure hope you don't turn out to be just another person who thinks that'll provide easy access to selling things in our Marketplace (which requires just 5 posts to participate as a seller). Because if so, you'll find out just like the others that try to do that, that no one will buy from you (hot newsflash: There's a Schilke E3L-4 in new condition that was listed on the marketplace last summer by a 5-poster-and done type for a fantastically low price - and it still hasn't sold)... |
Well, it turns out Alex Witt just wasted our time.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=102686&s=Custom-Built-Harrelson-Bravura-Jazz-Trumpet--Bb-
Another one... |
Fortunately, most of us are here to be friendly and helpful.
Pete |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: |
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The irony is that by posting the link to the OP's horn in multiple threads John is doing more advertising for him as well as spending more of our time... _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Scooter said air compression ... _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Don Herman rev2 wrote: | The irony is that by posting the link to the OP's horn in multiple threads John is doing more advertising for him as well as spending more of our time... |
I don't think so. Calling him out as an untrustworthy person is not what I would call advertising for him. And by calling him out, I am preventing people from wasting their time trying to help a person that doesn't really seek help here. Yes, a few moments are spent reading what I wrote, but that takes a lot less time then writing replies in good faith to someone who is just taking advantage of the website. And after finding out the true intent of the offender, if folks want to answer his questions so that others with similar (but true) concerns can be helped, that's just great. But this way everyone is informed. |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: |
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RussellDDixon wrote: | Scooter said air compression ... |
Air compression is definitely required.
I am not convinced we really move air faster when playing high notes. When we emulate what we do to play high notes without a horn on our face (blowing hard and arching our tongue up and forward) of course, the air that comes flying out of our mouthpiece is in a thin, very fast jet like stream. But that doesn't prove that the air also passes through the lips at a very fast rate when playing a high note. It might, but then it would have to be a very, very thin stream of air because as we all know, hardly any air moves through the horn when playing high notes, compared to when playing low notes. We all run out of air much quicker when playing low notes than when playing high notes of similar sound volume.
What is clear to me is that to play high notes we must generate a lot of air pressure (aka compression) with our muscles of expiration (the blowing muscles) and we need to arch our tongues up and forward to make the extreme high notes happen.
Whether the arching of the tongue is speeding up the air, or whether the arching of the tongue is concentrating the air into a thinner stream acting on a smaller area of the embouchure, or whether it is doing both these things, it is not required to know for sure.
As long as one practices the correct material for a long enough time for the desired development to occur, keeping in mind while practicing that in general we arch our tongues and blow stronger for higher notes, the upper range will grow. That's been my experience and that of my students.
Cheers,
John |
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Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | Don Herman rev2 wrote: | The irony is that by posting the link to the OP's horn in multiple threads John is doing more advertising for him as well as spending more of our time... |
I don't think so. Calling him out as an untrustworthy person is not what I would call advertising for him. And by calling him out, I am preventing people from wasting their time trying to help a person that doesn't really seek help here. Yes, a few moments are spent reading what I wrote, but that takes a lot less time then writing replies in good faith to someone who is just taking advantage of the website. And after finding out the true intent of the offender, if folks want to answer his questions so that others with similar (but true) concerns can be helped, that's just great. But this way everyone is informed. |
Agreed!
Pete |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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It seems to be a new sport: look for the new guy and hound him if he does anything so rude as to follow the guidelines of the site WRT selling on the marketplace.
The noisy ones all appear miss two rather important points.
1. While the marketplace has brought someone in, they may well prove to be a useful and productive member in time.
2. The horn they are selling may be the horn you have waited for for years! There's no reason to think they are not trustworthy.
Catch is, all the net nannies doing the calling out are also discouraging new members from becoming more involved. Don't forget you were new once, too.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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