Problem for a doubler

[JustinM]

Hey folks,

I'm a trombone player with a weird problem when playing the trumpet. I'm not sure whether I've chosen very poorly when it comes to equipment fitting my face or if I'm doing something horribly wrong (probably that one), but when I play trumpet, occasionally my lip will contact the inside of the mouthpiece, which not only feels completely squicky but also completely ends my ability to buzz until I stop and re-articulate the note. The only reason I suspect this might be equipment instead of solely a terrible embouchure is that it doesn't happen on any other brass instrument, even ones with similarly-sized mouthpieces.

I'm currently using a Bach 3C, but I'd like something maybe a bit smaller, but with a more open backbore. I've got a lot of hot air and tight backbores make me feel like I'm blowing against a brick wall.

Thanks for any advice.

[Turkle]

Sounds to me like the classic "bottoming out" problem. Basically you're pushing your chops too far into the mouthpiece.

This is fairly common with trumpet players learning to play shallow mouthpieces. It takes chop strength and air support to keep your lips out of the cup. I imagine as a trombone player you're used to having half your face in the mouthpiece (that's a joke) but you can't do that with the trumpet.

So it's probably either 1) get a deeper mouthpiece or 2) practice playing without stuffing your chops in the mouthpiece or 3) both.

Most likely 2) above.

Good luck!
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Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

[brassmusician]

I would try some different trumpet mouthpieces, maybe you can get to a store with collection of second hand ones, or borrow a bunch from some friends. The key is to is to play the trombone some and then try a trumpet mouthpiece, go back the trombone then try another trumpet mouthpiece and so on. In this way you should find something that works easily with your "trombone chops" and if you ever need to, you will be comfortable switching on a gig. There is not necessarily any particular rhyme or reason to what sort of trumpet mouthpiece will work size wise - a lot can depend on the rim and how much it permits your chops to enter the cup. I have done some doubling on trombone/tuba and found a few trumpet mouthpieces that were an easy switch and others that I just could not play easily after playing the the larger instruments.
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Cannonball 789RL
Yamaha 635ST
Yamaha 16C4
Wick 2BFL

[GordonH]

When I started playing the trumpet I was switching from Euphonium - similar to a trombone mouthpiece. I had to double for a while and used a Bach 1 trumpet mouthpiece. This is not great for range but I found it to be a comfortable switch.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[iiipopes]

I play mostly in community bands where you never know who is going to show up. I have the reputation as the "utility infielder." So I could be playing trumpet one year, euph another, and tuba the next. I have instruments and mouthpieces that respectively fit me well. I adjust my embouchure for each, and take a significant amount of time to make sure I am in shape for whichever instrument is required for that season. Like the above post, I am inclined to choice #2: get some private lessons, not for technique or pedagogy per se, but from a player/teacher who understands how the embouchure interacts with different horns. I am lucky: one of my best friends is a music ed major, trained in elementary band, including the fitting of instruments to players. Every time I have to switch, we have a session over horns and beverages to adjust to the next season.
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King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet

[chapahi]

I started playing trombone after having played trumpet 30+ years. I found it to be a relatively easy and beneficial double but there are snags. The problem you describe reminds me of the time I played trumpet after only playing trombone (no trumpet) for about a month. I think your problem will stop if you play more trumpet.
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Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super

[JVL]

hello
maybe practice with a visualizer, to adjust your embouchure, making sure you unfurl the lips more, and control your aperture.
Like said above, something in the Bach 1 size (not necessarily in this brand) would be coherent.

best

[chapahi]

I've posted this several times, but I as soon as I started playing trombone, I could immediately play better on smaller trumpet mouthpieces. The Bach 18C and 20C sounded great when I doubled. Perhaps counter-intuitively. The trouble happened that was similar to the OP, was when I stopped playing trumpet altogether for a month, only trombone.
Mouthpieces like the Bach 1 are played by big time professionals. I think it would be unwise as a beginner on trumpet, albeit an experienced lower brass player, to expect to sound good with a set-up like that. I think just practice trumpet more and you'll get it on the 3C or smaller. And have more fun.
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Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super

[AwesomeDad]

I also double tuba and trumpet, I encountered the same issue, I’ve got a custom stork mp with a pumped cup on its way I’ll let you know how it works out.

JJ

[plp]

I'm going the exact opposite direction, trying (poorly to date) to double on valve trombone ( Satan's instrument) with trumpet as my primary.

On trumpet, flugel and cornet play vastly different bores, diameters and cups, to get the desired sound.

On valve trombone, presently play a Schilke 20DD, sort of like a french horn mouthpiece on trombone. Very small diameter for a bass clef instrument, with a deeeep cup and standard throat.

If I use a curled embourchere, can get a decent tone and good air, but not the bhwata depth of tone I would like on trombone. If I collapse into the cup, which I suspect is de rigueur for trombone, get a more traditional sound, but just sucks the air out of me, not the resistance a trumpet player is used to.

I know, does not answer your question, but am giving you some information, coming from the opposite direction.

On paper, a good doubling mouthpiece for a trombone player would be the largest diameter, deepest cup you can find for trumpet.

As far as success for the best doubler on either instrument I can think of, here is what Mic Gillette played.

http://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=197_213_450_452&products_id=17659

As far as the best current doubler I know of,

https://www.facebook.com/monettetrumpets/videos/1373466867197/
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Since all other motives—fame, money, power, even honor—are thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it.” Wayne Booth