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13a4a vs. 10a4a



 
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VintageFTW
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Location: Somewhere in the mountains of North Georgia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: 13a4a vs. 10a4a Reply with quote

I was just looking at the Schilke mouthpeice chart and saw that the smaller 10a4a may be what I've been looking for. I play on a 70's Schilke 13a4a and it works well for everything I do, but I have had this persistent issue where the diameter feels slightly too large for me. How does the 10a4a compare to the 13a4a? Feel? Blow? Sound?

Also, is it possible to have Schilke make a mouthpiece with any specified combination? Such as, for example, a 10b5b or something along those lines?
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Last edited by VintageFTW on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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VintageFTW
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking even further, how does the Faddis model compare? It is around an 11 in diameter and could come in handy for jazz / big band / lead.
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1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
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1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more
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crose
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schilke can do anything you want

Something to be aware of - they changed their rims sometime in the late 80s or early 90s. Not as flat and I don't care for it. I too play an old 13a4a.

If I make make a suggestion. Contact Trent Austin. He copied mine - actually sent me a scan he had on file - exact match. He said it is a common order as quite a few folks prefer the old style rim.

His custom work is very affordable and he could scale your piece down to any diameter. Very knowledgeable, great service. No affiliation - just a happy customer.

Thinking about placing the same order. I am getting older and would like a smaller diameter lead piece but have used mine for the last 30+ year and don't want a safari. Let me know how it goes.
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VintageFTW
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try that, thanks! Though, define "affordable".
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1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: 13a4a vs. 10a4a Reply with quote

VintageFTW wrote:

Also, is it possible to have Schilke make a mouthpiece with any specified combination? Such as, for example, a 10b5b or something along those lines?


It is...

But...

You wouldn't be sure of exactly what you were getting until it arrived.

For example... a Schilke 14 is a 1.5C copy, the Schilke 14B is noticeably narrower (getting towards 7E territory); there's no such thing as "the" A cup or "the" 5 rim, that particular rim just happens to fit the vague category of A cup or B... The backbores are the one exception to this.


So sure, you could order a 10b5b - but whether it'd be what you were hoping for is hard to say.... at best, you'd tell them what you want and hope that what you get feels and plays like you were expecting (odds are, even if it were possible to make exactly what you ask for it still wouldn't feel or play like you expect it to).
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halfgreek12
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not a 6a4a? It's time tested and used by many gr8 lead players.
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crose
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't remember the exact price.

Just shoot them an email. They are great to deal with
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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:51 pm    Post subject: Schilke Reply with quote

Hello all,
I ordered an 11BX from the local store 10 years or so ago and they told me it was going to the normal retail price at the time. It came in as a custom order, not a stock size at $100. That was about $40 more than what the store was charging for normally stocked sizes. I imagine with 10 year inflation you would be looking at least $150 for a custom order. I think a 12B4 might be a reasonable size to try without going to a custom order. Seems like there is big diameter difference between the !3A to the 10B cup. I play Warburtons, and went from a 4 series to a 5 series. just because the 5's fit my face better. No matter what cup depth size I play.
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VintageFTW
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One would think that a 10 is smaller than a 13, but now I'm starting to have my doubts. Maybe I should ask a different question... What suggestions do you people have for a mouthpiece like the 13a4a, but with a smaller ID?
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1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the complication: each different size of A4a has a different cup shape, the ID isn't progressively smaller as you'd expect, and the rim itself may vary. As someone else said, the A backbore would be the same but that could be about it.

Scott Laskey used to work for Schilke and struck out on his own because he wanted to improve things. Many that like Schilke mpcs but want a small change are happy with his work.

A logical first step would be a trip to a music store that carries at least Schilke and maybe even Laskey. You might be surprised to find how big a 6A4a is, the 12A4a I tried was quite different from the 13. 10 and 11 might be less likely to be in stock but worth a try ..
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VintageFTW
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard that Laskeys are quite good. I really want to go to a music store with a wide selection so I can get properly fitted for a mouthpiece, but I'm having trouble finding a store to do this that isn't ridiculously far away. What range of Laskey models would you suggest for me to look at, as a starting point, that are similar to or smaller than a 70's 13a4a?
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1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more
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VintageFTW
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Joined: 21 Apr 2016
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Location: Somewhere in the mountains of North Georgia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok... After looking at the Laskey website I think that either the 50MC, 50S, or the 40S might be in the range of what I'm looking for. I may very well like the ES cups, but I use my 13a4a for everything and there is the possibility of bottoming out because I'm not developed to that point yet... not to mention that the sound would be totally inappropriate for anything except for jazz / big band / lead. What say you about this?
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1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more
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crose
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can deal with a different rim there are a world of choices. If you are wedded to that rim shape (as I am) you are not going to find much that is exactly like that, if anything.

Try pieces - no one on a forum can answer your questions better than a few moments with a piece on your chops. I try to do business with local or small shops run by musicians, but I don't feel guilty about ordering several pieces to try from one of the big box stores and abusing their return policy.

Can't imagine using mine for everything. Kudos to you if you can, but I just play lead on it and struggle with bottoming out when tired.

Lastly, call a pro. Whether it's Trent Austin or the Laskey shop, send an email or make a phone call and these folks will be happy to help. They are great players and business people and I am sure have had someone ask them this question before. They will give you advice (often better than you will get here) for FREE.
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lakejw
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Schilke journey took me from a set of 14s (A4a, A4, B4, C4, etc.) to 10s, to 11s, and finally up to 13s. I play GRs now but still use the 13 rim size (~0.631 in?).

10s are great, maybe a bit brighter than the 13s. 11s are worth a look too - it's best if you can find a used one of any cup size on eBay before plunking down custom orders. While they are significantly cheaper than a lot of boutique mouthpiece companies' prices, the custom orders can really add up. And you really won't know until you play one.
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VintageFTW
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great info, but which of those is a smaller diameter? I am just trying to fine tune my setup, although I am very flexible with rim shape and cup. As long as it is at least roughly flat and wide I am good. I just feel like the 13 is a little bit too big for me. Since you have experience with this range of mouthpieces, which one could you suggest?

For example: now that I know that the 13 is about 0.63, should I try to go with a diameter of 0.62? And if so, what are my options in that respect?
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1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more
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crose
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They make a 12a4a and a 10a4a

Smaller # = smaller diameter

The advice of trying them used is good advice. Post a WTB in the marketplace and resell if you don't like.

The newer rim is reasonably flat
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trumpethead
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VintageFTW wrote:
One would think that a 10 is smaller than a 13, but now I'm starting to have my doubts. Maybe I should ask a different question... What suggestions do you people have for a mouthpiece like the 13a4a, but with a smaller ID?


I have the 13A4a and 10A4 Schilke pieces in front of me.

Seems to be the same rim contour.
The '10' does feel slightly smaller with similar cup depth.
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VintageFTW
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the answer lays in the new 13a4a. I went and tried some Schilke's and found that the new 13a4a feels ever so slightly smaller than my old one, which is just enough. I didn't get a chance to try anything smaller however, because the 13a4a is the smallest size they carry.
_________________
1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more
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