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Pablopiccasso Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2014 Posts: 204
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:14 pm Post subject: Muted vs open practice |
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I'm sure this must have been discussed before but...
...how beneficial is muted practice vs open. Is open always better?
How do you compensate open practice when having to play muted, for example, in a hotel room, if you live in a house with family, or just not to annoy the neighbours, or late at night? |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Reminds me of the old adage used in the armed services: "Train as you fight, fight as you train." For armed service members, this means their training has to be similar enough to combat so they can do their jobs well in that kind of environment. For trumpeters, if you do most of your playing with an open trumpet, then you should practice with an open trumpet. If you're going to play something with a particular mute, you should practice with that mute.
I'll never forget the time I was to play an acrobatic fanfare solo that required lots of agility. I was living in an apartment at the time, so I practiced it with a practice mute, which added lots of resistance. I had it down pat on the practice mute, but when I went to play it in performance, the resistance was so different without the mute that I was cracking the high notes all over the place.
Ever since then, I've been anti-practice-mute. I use it on trips in hotels, but never on high-and-loud stuff where the resistance is drastically different. I don't practice with it at home anymore. My family and neighbors are used to it, and I don't abuse their patience by practicing in the middle of the night. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:32 am Post subject: |
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I prefer to practice without a mute because in my case the mute hid too many sins, especially with my tone development. I practice at 5 am with a very soft sound that my neighbors have confirmed is unheard. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:28 am Post subject: |
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Vincent Cichowicz preferred using a cup mute for his warm up. He liked the little bit of resistance it provided in getting the day started and felt that it would not be detrimental to a player (when done in moderation). I studied with Thomas Hohstadt in high school. He was reportedly a child prodigy on trumpet and was on some of the Eastman Wind Ensemble recordings with Frederick Fennell, including their famed recording of the Hindemith Symphony in B-flat for Band, which has the beautiful duet in mvt. 2 between solo trumpet and solo alto sax. Hohstadt eventually took the route of conducting also, and when he was playing principal trumpet in the Honolulu Symphony (now known as the Hawaii Sym. Orch.), he was also serving as assistant conductor. He said that he was so busy that he would practice etudes from memory while watching TV in order to stay in shape but still have some down time. I recall reading years ago an interview with David Bilger (Prin. Tpt. Phil. Orch.), where he was practicing while watching the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie Terminator 2. I have taken the two of these things and mixed them. I now practice a lot of material with an adjustable cup mute while watching TV with wireless headphones. I also practice a lot of open horn daily in my master bathroom, which is something Doc Severinsen mentioned as an acoustical preference in a published interview years ago.
There are certainly advantages to playing in various acoustical settings, wet and dry, and there are certainly reasons to avoid over usage of mute playing. Your list includes reasons to use mutes, and many of us may believe they are valid. Sometimes we have to use them to simply get a good warm up without disturbing family/neighbors. If it's very early or late, then a quiet practice mute might be in order, but something with that much resistance is probably not what you'd want to use a whole lot without it being balanced out with significant open practice, listening critically to your sound/pitch/starts/et al. Using a cup mute while watching TV might be suitable for an experienced professional that is highly cognizant of all that he is doing mechanically and following through with the air free of extra tension. These are elements of playing where younger or lesser experienced players would be lacking perception, and for those, it would be wise to avoid much practice as mentioned. One additional thought: Avoid sitting on a couch while practicing! It can eventually bring on pinched nerve symptoms. Ask me how I know. I now exclusively (stand or) sit erect in a firm chair that would be accepted in any performing situation. Posture cannot be sacrificed. There are tons of arguments to all of the above. |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1473 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Muted vs open practice |
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Pablopiccasso wrote: | I'm sure this must have been discussed before but...
...how beneficial is muted practice vs open. Is open always better?
How do you compensate open practice when having to play muted, for example, in a hotel room, if you live in a house with family, or just not to annoy the neighbours, or late at night? |
I´ve been using the Silent brass some 20 years now - not to enhance my playing but protect my wife. Not that she complains vividly if I sometimes pull the thing out of the bell - but but. Since I now practice a lot more than I ever did, trying to compensate for advancing age and maintaining lead chair and a high (amateur) level I´ve found that the extra resistance has to be watched out for. Lips getting swollen from unnatural unconscious pressure, me getting exhausted too soon are ever present dangers. So I´ve begun using a harmon mute, stem out which provides less resistance. If possible I find it a clearcut advantage to practice "without no mute". My new Bach, less resistant than the old King proved to be a challenge - because of me so thoroughly used to always experience this resistance. I kinda overblew the Bach, finding it hard to pinpoint the tones (high register). Much in the same way as dstpt relates. I find his viewpoints very valid.
On the other hand - diligently monitoring apropriate pressure/resistance you might come a long way with a practice mute. And keep your dear ones (or complete strangers) happy (-ier).
By the way I always sit when practcing - even used to read a magazine - but that doesn´t work today me practicing that much. Watching TV? Possible up to a certain point - if the idea is to do, as someone (a pro close to me) once said "lactid acid training". But the fine nuances are easily lost if you leave out paying attention to the feedback. This is the biggest issue - from my humble viewpoint.
So - practice mute can be used a lot - considering the possible drawbacks, even to some extent help foster endurance - but watch out! _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Using a Silent Brass or even any of the "practice mute" options available are far superior to not being able to practice at all...
There have been times when I've had to use a Silent Brass and I still do when I must practice during the evening when my wife is home. Otherwise, no mute is my best option unless I'm rehearsing actual muted parts. (For those of you who haven't figured this out yet- if you have exposed muted parts you'd better practice them that way before you head to the first rehearsal or the gig.) |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2163 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:11 am Post subject: |
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I'm always striving for a certain sound. I believe I'm listening for that sound when I practice. I can't hear that sound when I have any kind of mute in. |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:10 am Post subject: |
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I’m either in a hotel on travel or deployed. The practice mute has been my second wife since I joined the Navy. I don’t try to practice lead / high notes on it because it’s not the same. It does force me to practice playing soft and calm which I appreciate. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Due to apartment situation, almost all my practicing is done with an adjustable cup mute in, pulled quite close to the bell.
My experience is that as long as I practice quietly, being very careful not to overblow, then my open playing is totally fine. The key is not overblowing, because then you'll get used to the increased resistance.
Obviously, open practicing is ideal, but you can still get tons of great work done with a mute as long as you're careful. A few times a month I get out to a practice room to do my routine open and make sure everything's firing on all cylinders - it helps, particularly in the upper register. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1473 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Pillow talk?
Maybe better idea provide antiphones to all concerned. Keeps the staff on the run. Smaller than a mute. But a mute is smaller than a pillow although not that cosy. _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Shark01 Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2017 Posts: 283
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Craig Swartz wrote: |
There have been times when I've had to use a Silent Brass and I still do when I must practice during the evening when my wife is home. .) |
I've been coerced into using this silent brass crap Mon-Thur. Don't care for it...the inconsistency of it and me playing it is defeating.... |
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Pablopiccasso Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2014 Posts: 204
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Coerced?
Don't put up with that
Get out, get out while you can
Whatever next? Sexual exploitation? Political radicalism? Religious fundamentalism? Don't be coerced man, don't allow yourself to be coerced.... |
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lexluther Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2015 Posts: 108 Location: Northwest, Indiana
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Use a mute because you have to, not because you want to. Just my 2 cents, I hate mutes! _________________ Bb - Schilke B6, SB4-MG Soloiste
Bb - Yamaha 8310Z II, 25th Anniversary Xeno
C - Yamaha Artist Chicago Xeno
Flugel - Getzen Custom Reserve 4895
Eb/D - Yamaha 6610
Cornet - Bach Strad 184ML |
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Kanstul1525 New Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2018 Posts: 8
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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My mic-a- mute gives me more time to practice in the evenings. MOL time is soooo important!! |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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lexluther wrote: | Use a mute because you have to, not because you want to. Just my 2 cents, I hate mutes! |
“I’m going to use this practice mute even if I don’t need to” said no one ever. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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Shark01 Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2017 Posts: 283
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Pablopiccasso wrote: | Coerced?
Don't put up with that
Get out, get out while you can
Whatever next? Sexual exploitation? Political radicalism? Religious fundamentalism? Don't be coerced man, don't allow yourself to be coerced.... |
Can't get out man, I'm in too deep, she controls everything.
Sexual exploitation? Political radicalism? Religious fundamentalism? - All these are happening, its this mute thing, I'm telling ya.
BTW, love your work. If you ever get a chance I have an open spot on the wall. Something simple....like me shirtless on a mountain with 6 pack abs playing a golden trumpet, with God and all the great players from history grooving out.....yeah, totally worthy of a Picasso. |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: |
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I'm mostly playing on a shhmute lately because I live in an apartment. I need to find a way to get some blocks of time unmuted (maybe at the office after dinner when no one's around).
One of the things muting has done with my trumpet is pushed a lot of moisture back into it. I was getting a fuzzy sound and at first I thought it was lip fatigue but I think it was just moisture. |
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USNABtpt New Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2018 Posts: 8 Location: Annapolis, MD
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:42 am Post subject: |
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#1 _________________ Dan Arute
United States Naval Academy Band |
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Pablopiccasso Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2014 Posts: 204
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