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CJceltics33 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 475
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: Troubles while Descending |
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Yesterday I was recording myself and upon listening back to the recording I noticed most of the issues in my sound happened while I was descending.
Problems such as:
-cracking notes,
-starting a note not quite centered,
-and starting the note too loud/aggressively
all occurred much more frequently as I was descending.
This is probably a result of many things undeveloped in my playing but I’d still like any advice on how to become more accurate as I descend and fix the above. Such as exercises, something to focus on, etc. |
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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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bear30101 Regular Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2015 Posts: 89 Location: Ga.
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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CJ, Here's an easy test:
Play the kind of descending scale/notes that usually gives you trouble, but consciously, ADD way-too-much mouthpiece pressure on the way down.
Do the notes stabilize?
Sometimes, especially when we use excess pressure to ascend, we over-compensate on the way down, destabilizing the embouchure. _________________ searching |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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bear30101 wrote: | CJ, Here's an easy test:
Play the kind of descending scale/notes that usually gives you trouble, but consciously, ADD way-too-much mouthpiece pressure on the way down.
Do the notes stabilize?
Sometimes, especially when we use excess pressure to ascend, we over-compensate on the way down, destabilizing the embouchure. |
I must be mis-understanding - you aren't recommending this ( way-too-much mp pressure) as a treatment or way to correct are you?
Rod |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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A few suggestions:
1. Arpeggio studies (sometimes called "chord studies" in some methods). For example, Arban pp. 142-151, or Franquin pp. 178-204 (practically an entire method in just these pages if you do all the transpositions), or Vizzutti book 2 pp. 19-50 (great exercises).
2. Lip flexibility exercises that go up and down the range (rather than just oscillate between two partials) for example, Bai Lin groups 1, 2, and/or 3 (group 4 and 5 if you can swing it), or Bolvin Flex on the Move, or Franquin pp. 118-124.
3. Schlossberg exercises 18-37.
These exercises are valuable for all-around development, but you'll find them especially helpful for developing accuracy in playing up and down your range. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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bear30101 Regular Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2015 Posts: 89 Location: Ga.
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Rod, No.
This is a test to determine if there's a wide range of pressure being applied in different ranges and/or if there is an excessive motion in the pivot.
I was experiencing the same problems with descending passages many years ago, when Doc Reinhardt applied this test to me.
If the extra pressure makes the descending notes more stable, as it did with me, one recognizes and internalizes the excess motion and/or pressure that one is using and can start to minimize it.
Thanks for asking. _________________ searching |
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Nonsense Eliminator Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 5212 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:27 am Post subject: |
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I think the basic problem most people have is that we either let up on the lower note or try really hard NOT to let up and end up overblowing. Sometimes there's also a more general issue of excessive use of force; if we're generally forcing things, it's much easier to get away with it on higher notes than lower ones. (In other words, sometimes the problem isn't the low note, is the fact that we tightened right up to play the high notes and couldn't get unclenched when the line went down.)
Either way, I think the solution is the same: practice things that ascend and descend (first by step, then by leap) while trying to keep the sound as consistent and even as possible. One thing that's been very helpful for me lately is making sure I don't crescendo or decrescendo unless I want to for musical reasons. Undoing the connection between playing high and blowing harder (and vice versa) can help sort out a lot of issues. _________________ Richard Sandals
NBO |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Playing in unison with my teacher made it really clear that my leaps down were weak. I took that as a challenge and started consciously flipping what I normally did. I specifically started doing exercises, mostly Schlossberg, decrescendoing on ascending lines and crescendoing on descending lines. Similar for intervals, I'd focused on exercises where I would pull back on the up intervals and dial it up on down intervals. I did this in a really exaggerated fashion for a while to break the old habits. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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rufflicks Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2011 Posts: 641 Location: Mesa AZ
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Slow down and support your sound. You might be relaxing a bit too much the way down.
Best, Jon _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/Rufftips
Remember this is supposed to be fun.
Last edited by rufflicks on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pepperdean Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 650 Location: Johnson City, Texas
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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You should play down the intervals just like you play up the intervals. Playing up and letting go has the same disastrous results as climbing a ladder and letting go to descend.
Trent Austin recently posted a video mini-lesson where he begins descending slurs with a note end. I think you might find this helpful in regulating the rate of relaxation as you descend.
Alan |
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