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ehammarlund Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 23
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: Freer-blowing than Bach 3C, what to try? |
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Thanks for general advice. Let me ask for more specific help please
I'm currently on a new-version Bach 3C. I want to try something which is freer-blowing, as the 3C often feels too restrictive.
Problem is, I don't know what that is; everyone has their own numbering system and I don't really understand the whole throat/backbore/cup interaction thing and am COMPLETELY confused. More to the point I don't know where the Bach 3C falls on the restrictive front, comparatively speaking.
Help! |
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Shifty Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2013 Posts: 250 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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There are many resources. Among the best, IMHO, are John and Phyllis at Stork Custom Mouthpieces.
http://storkcustom.com/contact-us/ _________________ Getzen Eterna 700, Eterna 800
Conn Connstellation 28A, Victor 80A, Connqueror (1903)
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn |
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Johnathan Barnett Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 169 Location: Morgantown, WV
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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I have a Kanstul CG3 for sale in the marketplace and it is a nice free blowing mouthpiece. Very similar to a 3C but a lot more open. _________________ Johnathan Barnett
Yamaha YTR-736
Yamaha Japan 12, 13A4a
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"Don't look down on anyone unless you are helping them up." --- Jesse Owens |
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Nonsense Eliminator Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 5212 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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If you like the 3C and want a mouthpiece that is freer-blowing, open up the throat and/or backbore. _________________ Richard Sandals
NBO |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Nonsense Eliminator wrote: | If you like the 3C and want a mouthpiece that is freer-blowing, open up the throat and/or backbore. |
Yep! _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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Matthew Anklan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 1085 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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The Hammond Design 5ML is a fairly free blowing "3C" sized mouthpiece. Check out www.karlhammonddesign.com for more info. _________________ Matthew Anklan
www.matthewanklan.com
Patrick Mouthpieces Artist |
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jadickson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Freer-blowing than Bach 3C, what to try? |
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ehammarlund wrote: | Thanks for general advice. Let me ask for more specific help please
I'm currently on a new-version Bach 3C. I want to try something which is freer-blowing, as the 3C often feels too restrictive.
Problem is, I don't know what that is; everyone has their own numbering system and I don't really understand the whole throat/backbore/cup interaction thing and am COMPLETELY confused. More to the point I don't know where the Bach 3C falls on the restrictive front, comparatively speaking.
Help! |
I sent you a private message, please check your inbox. _________________ Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2331 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: |
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If you are happy with the way the rim feels, quality of attack, tone and flexibility my advise would also try opening up the throat.
DON'T change your current piece, order a new mouthpiece from a vendor that can open the throat properly - I suggest Osmun Music.
Then, the following is from Mouthpiece Anatomy 101 regarding basic effects of mouthpiece elements: as you can infer from this basic description as you improve one aspect you diminish another... Stiking the balance that works for you is the challange / safari..
Rim:
Wide - inscreases endurance
Narrow - improves flexibility
Round - improves comfort
Sharp - increases precision of attack
Cup:
Large - increases volume, control
Small - relieves fatigue
Deep - darkens tone, especially in low register
Shallow - brightens tone, improves response, especially in high register
Throat:
Large - increases blowing freedom, volume, tone; sharpens high register (largest sizes also sharpen low register)
Small - increases resistance, endurance, brilliance; flattens high register.
Backbore:
Combinations of size and shape make the tone darker or brighter, raise of lower the pitch in one or more registers, increases or decrease volume. The backbore's effects depends, in part, also on the throat and cup. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2331 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:37 am Post subject: |
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P.S. the trumpet is the other aspect of the equation:
you + mouthpiece + trumpet = desired result
What I mean is that you may find that the mouhpiece setup you like on this trumpet isn't ideal for another...
For me, I prefer a Curry 3C on my Bb 19037, on my CL239 a 3C with a 25 throat, and on my Commercial a 3-star.. Same rims but different cup shape, depth and backbores. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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ehammarlund Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 23
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Hmm. Thanks.
I forgot about Stork (and also remembered them as being way more expensive than they are.) That was a great recommendation: To maximize my chances of ending up with something that fits right on the first try, it's probably worth the extra $20 or so to work with Stork. |
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OndraJ Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2012 Posts: 104 Location: hometown
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:28 am Post subject: |
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I would recommand a mouthpiece from James New.
His "S5M" top should be a copy of an old Mt Vernon 3C. His "S" backbore is a more open #10 backbore.
He is also able to make you a #7 (schmidt style) bb or my favorite #87.
Or you could play it with any screwable bb, Warburton, Kanstul,....
Here is some info about the piece:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140164 |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Johnathan Barnett wrote: | I have a Kanstul CG3 for sale in the marketplace and it is a nice free blowing mouthpiece. Very similar to a 3C but a lot more open. |
This!
I was about to suggest the CG3. It's based on the 3C but has a slightly more V-shaped cup (not deeper, just more V-shaped), bigger throat and bigger backbore. I think it is exactly what you are looking for.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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rufflicks Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2011 Posts: 641 Location: Mesa AZ
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Nonsense Eliminator Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 5212 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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ehammarlund wrote: | Hmm. Thanks.
I forgot about Stork (and also remembered them as being way more expensive than they are.) That was a great recommendation: To maximize my chances of ending up with something that fits right on the first try, it's probably worth the extra $20 or so to work with Stork. |
If there is something other than the openness of the 3C that you want to address, then it's quite logical to try other makes. If not, however, it seems to me that it makes sense to change only what needs changing. In particular, if you like the Bach rim, there is a good chance you won't like the Stork rim much. _________________ Richard Sandals
NBO |
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ehammarlund Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 23
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | If there is something other than the openness of the 3C that you want to address, then it's quite logical to try other makes. If not, however, it seems to me that it makes sense to change only what needs changing.
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I guess that's true; I hadn't really thought of it that way. But it makes sense.
Someone here has a Bach 3C which Osmun drilled to a 25; maybe I'll give that a shot since it it literally the closest thing to a "more open 3C" I can find.
I have a bad feeling that this is not the first step down the "what MP?" road, though.... |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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ehammarlund wrote: | Quote: | If there is something other than the openness of the 3C that you want to address, then it's quite logical to try other makes. If not, however, it seems to me that it makes sense to change only what needs changing.
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I guess that's true; I hadn't really thought of it that way. But it makes sense.
Someone here has a Bach 3C which Osmun drilled to a 25; maybe I'll give that a shot since it it literally the closest thing to a "more open 3C" I can find.
I have a bad feeling that this is not the first step down the "what MP?" road, though.... |
I had one mouthpiece for years till I got a divorce and could spend my own money. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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krush New Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2018 Posts: 3 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I have been exploring the mouthpieces from Austin Custom Brass over the past couple years. Trent has some awesome options and they are very helpful to aid in finding the change you would like to make. I was always a Bach piece guy before. |
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