Bach 180S37 -- A Review

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The Bach 180-37 Bb, a brief review:

I’ve been reviewing a lot of new horns lately from builders like Conn, Yamaha, Stomvi and Kanstul. Many of these horns seem to be derivative of the Bach, in fact I’ve reviewed a couple that were hard to distinguish from a Bach visually from a distance of just a few feet. Imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery. For better or worse, Bach Bb and C trumpets have become the de facto standard for orchestral and wind ensemble trumpet tone in the USA and those horns are the benchmark by which most competing trumpets are measured.

I’ve played many Bachs through the years, but I’ve never owned one and it’d been a least three years since I had one in my hands for more than a few seconds. If I’m going to keep reviewing horns I figured that I owed my readers an update of my personal Bach-knowledge. So, I called my good buddy Roger Holmes at Brook Mays’ LBJ store in Dallas, Texas to arrange a short loan. Roger quickly filled the need by loaning me a new Bach 37, serial number 584693 in silver plate, pick randomly out of the store room.

The fit and finish is very good with good valve action, even silver plating and smooth action on all slides. The horn is feels medium in weight and the bracing is relatively stiff, with two vertical braces on the main slide branch and large flanges on the braces between the leadpipe and bell. This brace pattern is copied on many other horns, down to the exact shape and size of the flanges.

The valves have fast action and don’t seem to require any special oil in order to work well. Some horns have tighter valves that will tend to be slow unless you clean them scrupulously and use ultra-light synthetic oils. I personally prefer valves in the later category, but I think that Bach has made a good choice for a horn that will likely be the first “pro” trumpet of millions of high school trumpeters. The Bach’s valves are a little on the “clanky”, noisy side, but they work with a sticking valve seeming unlikely.

The stock single case is excellent with nice materials, light weight, good weather and shock protection with useable storage compartments within the case. My own horn came with a European BAM brand case that actually has superior materials, but any advantage there is offset by the Bach case’s superior storage.

I’ve examined and played a lot of boutique, custom horns, like Blackburn, Lawler, Wild Thing, V-Raptor (these last two are serious horns despite their names) and almost-custom horns like Schilke and Selmer Paris. If you rank the boutique and custom horns at a 9 or 10 on a 10-point scale, then the fit and finish of the Bach is about a 7. This is comparable to the overall quality of the Stomvi, Kanstul and Yamaha horns that I’ve reviewed in the last few months give or take a point.

Of course, playing is how you really test a trumpet. For this medium-large, .459” bore horn I used my Bach 3C and a GR66LX mouthpieces for most of the testing. There was a medium-large Stomvi USA on hand for direct comparison and, of course, my own Selmer Paris Concept TT was used, but it’s not directly comparable because it’s large bore.

First, let me say that this Bach was NOT “STUFFY”. It was easy to make it resonate and its “slotting” was solid and secure without being unduly “stiff.” Using my GR66MS I easily played up to G over high-C with a nice tone with good “sizzle”. (Some day I’ll write a little treatise explaining all these quoted words, but for now the quotes will mean that I know what I’m saying and I hope you do. Some of you will, since these are much used trumpet lingo, but I’ve found them problematic in reading the reviews of others). Going back to the 3C and the 66LX I noted a “focused”, full tone that seemed to “project” well.

The intonation compromises were typical of what I’ve come to expect of most pro trumpets. That means far from perfect, but close enough that they can be easily adjusted. Basically it’s, kick out a slide here, lip up a note there, and use an alternate fingering elsewhere and everything is wonderful. I’ve found that the so called “supper-horns” have the same compromises, but they differ only in degree. There were no intonation issues that made certain notes hard to play. I’ve played horns that got really hard above high-C because the intonation was so far off. Once again, I’d rank the intonation at a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10. I’d also rank the Stomvi at a 7 and my Selmer Paris at a 9, just for comparison’s sake. I once owned an old Keefer cornet from about 1914 that had a wonderful tone, beautiful engravings and an intonation rating of 4!!

Let’s get back to that “focused” tone. The Bach 37 has a really rich palette of overtones with lots of midrange emphasis and very little emphasis in the upper partials. This is the key to the “Bach sound” in my humble opinion. The Bach’s tone is NOT a “dark” tone. I keep finding people wanting to darken their tone with things like copper bells and toilet-bowl sized mouthpieces. This is a matter of personal taste, but I think that a trumpet should sound a lot like this Bach. There’s a new phalanx of super heavy horns out there that rob the horn of its bell-like “ring”. I prefer the Bach’s tone signature.

The opposite of “focused” in my lexicon is “broad”. Horns with larger bells tend to have a broader, more diffuse tone. I don’t consider one bad and one good, they’re just different points on a scale. If 1 were the most “focused” horn possible and 10 were the “broadest” possible, then this Bach is around a 6. My personal horn is a 7 or 8, but if I played more orchestral stuff, I’d move closer on the focus scale to this horn.

This is a very good horn. It is a good, safe recommendation for almost all players. There are Asian horns that are almost as good for several hundred dollars less and there are several competing horns within a couple of hundred dollars in cost, plus or minus. Also, you can buy a better constructed horn, more resonant horn for a couple of hundred dollars more and you can spend twice as much and not get much more. Given all those options, it’s going to be hard for a player to go too far wrong with a Bach. It’s easy to conceive of a young person buying one of these in high school and using it for decades in a successful pro trumpeting career, or just pulling it out for community band and playing in church. Either way, it’s a great option.

Best regards,

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[jophst]

Very good review! I guess I need to try the Brand New Bach's. I hear quality is on an upward move.
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

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Yeah, I felt real good about this one. Keep in mind that I was still rating it a 7 out of 10 overall. Despite "ordinary" fit, finish and intonation, it had a "classic" tone. It was a random selection. I didn't try to go in and find the best Bach at Brook Mays.

I'd put the fit and finish on most Yamahas I've tried and/or owned over the last couple of decades at an 8 or 9, but they've tended to be less resonant and alive. The Stomvis were about the same as this Bach, as were the Kanstuls. The Schilkes and Selmers have been a couple of notches better without the deadness of the Yamahas. But, all those are generalities and a particular horn can be different than the trends.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[jamesfrmphilly]

very good review!
why don't you follow up with a Schilke?

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Yeah, Schilke is a thought. Unfortunately, Schilke won't return Brook Mays' phone calls. Maybe I can strike up a relationship at the area dealer. I AM hoping to get in a Chicago Brass Works in the next few months and the 8310Z as soon as it's available. I love the Schilkes, but I'll have to work up a new relationship to get one for a weekend visit.

Thanks for the idea,

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[jamesfrmphilly]

i thought woodwind and brasswind would send you one on trail.
try them.

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Well, yeah, WWBW will send one IF you let them run your credit card. I'd rather not do that. I'll figure out a way.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[musicemt]

Just a warning....maybe my Bach Strad is a fluke, but it seems to be stricken with "stickyvalveitis" that no amount of cleaning seems to correct. I'm not trying to debunk Dave's review, it's a very sound one, but I just wanted to say that the valves may not always work as well as on the Strad that Dave tried.

Ben
_________________
"Imitation, assimilation, innovation"
-Clark Terry

Zeus Guarnerius
Bach C 239 w/ Blackburn pipe/slide
Weril Regium flugelhorn
Yamaha 14B4-GP
Yamaha Shew-lead

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No horn is immune from "stickyvalveitis". Hope you fix yours. Sounds like they may need lapping.
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[2LIP]

Dave:

Nice review of the Bach 180-37. I have played many Bach trumpets that others have owned. Different models and different finishes. If I played more Orchestral music or community band, then I might even own one too. If you line up 10 horns for me to try, I never go back to the Bach. Your review may be true, but they sound bland to me, and I don't like the way they feel in my hands. So many other choices that I think might be better for most people. Not to say anything bad about Bach, I think that they are most often chosen because someone told the student or parent to buy one and they never research or question that teacher's word. That might work some of the time, but not the right horn for everyone, all the time.

LIP

[brad333]

My piccolo had a case of "stickyvalveitis" and cured it with a quick trip the repair shop. Ron Parch in Toronto opened up the valve casings by a few thousandths of an inch they work better than new now. No more sticky valves, ever.

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Well, I agree with you to a high degree LIP, particularly when discussing the experience from behind the horn. This is probably one reason I've never owned a Bach myself. Still, when you listen to the sound out in front of a Bach, it's excellent. I happen to believe that there are horns that sound great on both sides (Selmer Paris for instance), BUT I don't think it can be denied that Bach's have a resonant sound with rich, attractive overtones when heard from the audience. Since most of us are performers, that criteria becomes very important, whether we like it or not.

Band directors that are not trumpeters hear only what comes out of the bell. If that were my only experience, then I'd take great comfort in suggesting Bach to anyone that asks. I don't think we can fault them for this approach. Also, note that most directors have become very accepting of Yamahas and other Bach-like horns. (You could sneak into almost any section with a silver plated horn of any make so long as it looks like a Bach). However, if I were a director and some kid showed up for wind ensemble with a Stomvi Mambo I'd be pretty upset. (Great tool, but wrong application and I'm sure that the extra sizzle would be very noticeable).

So, I think that as performers we must place our first emphasis on how a given horn sounds out front. Bach 37s pass this test with flying colors. Fortunately Bach is not the only choice and there are some horns that sound better to the player and still sound great to the audience. The various Bach bells can change the sound pretty dramatically, as much or more so than changing brands. I felt like the Stomvi USA that I reviewed a few days ago was somewhere between a 37 and a 43 bell, but closer to a 37.

Best regards,

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[WaxHaX0rS]

Your case of sticky valves wasn't probably as bad as mine. But I owned my strad for a few weeks and it worked perfectly until suddenly it apparently developed a burr in the casing. The valve would hardly move without force. I took it to the shop and they flushed it out and I haven't had any real problems since. (it seemed to happen again one other time, but it must have been some other debris because I ran a brush through it a couple times and it was back to normal again).