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Flip Oakes Legend anyone? Let's talk about it ...


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Locutus2k
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:13 am    Post subject: Flip Oakes Legend anyone? Let's talk about it ... Reply with quote

Ok, i'm just curious about new Flip Oakes trumpet. Anyone had a chance to play one yet?
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21trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Flip Oakes Legend anyone? Let's talk about it ... Reply with quote

Locutus2k wrote:
Ok, i'm just curious about new Flip Oakes trumpet. Anyone had a chance to play one yet?


I found this on Flip’s Facebook page. Looks very interesting. I guess Flip has designed something that will fit what more trumpet players tend to look for in a trumpet at a more affordable price. I am sure Flip will chime in soon as he posts on TH often.

www.facebook.com/groups/58696087064/permalink/10156203151667065/
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it’s a very smart move, a bit more traditional horn, obviously borrowing, at least in build appearance, from the older Benges and Bessons.

I’d love to try one!

Brad
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't talked to Flip about The Legend. I just have guesses from the photos he posted. They could all be wrong, but here's what I see:

Kanstul's Besson valve block. The pull turnings on the second valve are clearly Besson, not Burbank or Chicago; the bottom caps have a very thin line of knurling; the top caps (this one is not as clear) seem to have the convex contour that differentiates the Besson valve block from the others. Also, the Receiver, finger hook and saddle are definitely Besson parts.

Wide wrap. It appears that there is more room between the lead pipe/bell and the valve slides than would be the case with Burbank or Chicago trumpets. It also seems to be a little shorter from tuning slide crook to bell bow than those trumpets.

Lead pipe. It is not possible to tell from these photos, but this does not appear to be the CG pipe. Flip calls this a free blowing trumpet, so it is definitely a possibility, but the CG pipe is really large right out of the mouthpiece receiver and this does not look that big in the photos. However, the CG pipe plays really well and I know Flip used to play a extensively modified CG Benge before making the Wild Thing, so I would expect him to have at least tried it on the horn.

Bell. Here, I defer to my history with Flip over the years. My best guess (and that is all it is) would be the Meha bell, not the Brevette bell.

In all, it seems that Flip has chosen the ML bore Besson Meha as the basis for his new design. It gives knowledgeable trumpet players the option to own a brand new, fully developed and prepared trumpet drawn from the dawning of the modern era. The One that everyone copied.
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jetjaguar
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Nate isn't posting anymore. He would be a likely early candidate to try it give us a review. Of course Flip may very well do so himself.
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homebilly
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

very Kanstul Besson-y

nice looking rig
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What’s the price?
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
What’s the price?


The flier on the FB post says $2495 in clear lacquer, $2695 for silver plate.
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Bill Blackwell
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's be clear - Brian's post hereinabove is complete speculation (as he admits), most of which is incorrect. The facts are that the specs on the Legend in Flip's announcement are all that have been made available.

I played the Legend very briefly over the weekend. It's a diversion from Flip's prior Wild Thing and Celebration designs (in fact, it represents a full U-turn), but it is a very nice horn. It is free-blowing, especially for a standard ML bore instrument; it will have a hugely wide appeal and accessible to most players from student to working professional. It's a back-to-the basics design based solely on the original early 20th Century French Besson, just as Flip said in his announcement.
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jetjaguar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an allegedly original Meha to compare it to:

http://centexbrass.com/listings/BessonMeha.php
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21trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if I should be the one posting this but here is the lastest on Flip’s new trumpet.

https://youtu.be/3y9fqyuKZdk
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find that most promotional information on trumpets falls into the "hype" category. There may be good trumpets and not so good trumpets (for you) but there are no magic trumpets, you still have to play the instrument well in order for you to get all the results you dream of. Between two trumpets which are both quality instruments in good working order there is not a lot of difference between them (I acknowledge that there are differences but not enough differences to magically make a good player out of a so-so player).

There is too much emphasis on equipment. At the end of the day the most important differences are the differences between the players. Doc would sound great on any quality trumpet in good working condition.
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21trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
I find that most promotional information on trumpets falls into the "hype" category. There may be good trumpets and not so good trumpets (for you) but there are no magic trumpets, you still have to play the instrument well in order for you to get all the results you dream of. Between two trumpets which are both quality instruments in good working order there is not a lot of difference between them (I acknowledge that there are differences but not enough differences to magically make a good player out of a so-so player).

There is too much emphasis on equipment. At the end of the day the most important differences are the differences between the players. Doc would sound great on any quality trumpet in good working condition.


Funny that is exactly what Arturo said (if you watch the whole video) at the end of the video, practice makes a great trumpet player. But a great horn helps in my opinion.
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Flip Oakes
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all fairness, the room where the video was made is a smaller enclosed room, the microphone was approx. 2' feet from Arturo, meaning that the sound hadn't yet developed as to compare the two trumpets fairly as to the size of sound, and the timbre as well. Yes, while there is a somewhat noticeable difference in the sound on the video, at 15 feet or further away, the sound is very different in comparison. All in all it was my hope that this would provide some information that would be helpful. It was a very pleasurable day at Arturo's. After the recording, Arturo taken all of us to lunch Joyce, Keith Fiala, Dustin Higgins, and myself. Arturo is a very gracious person, many thanks !!!

The New Flip Oakes Legend Bb Trumpet is not yet on my website http://www.flipoakes.com so if you want to contact me, you can either call me at 760-643-1501, or drop me an email flip@flipoakes.com
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

getting the resistance right is half the battle in a trumpet. having an ML horn with a touch of resistance requires little adaptation. stacking up air like a bagpipe is different and for people who are well used to the experience.
it sounds like a real winner and good business sense in having a price leader in flip's lineup. the lure of history and the old bessons make it hard to pass by. if you want mr. spock find mr. spock. for business decisions i can be cerebral. going into music making mode i am completely emotionally driven. it's the point of the exercise. you can play jazz, you can play legitimate, who is kidding who, you are old school.
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just talked to flip to verify. the legend has had flip's total enhancement done to it.
value, anyone?
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Winghorn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to try one! The Wild Thing I played sounded great but was a bit to open for me. This may be just the ticket. And Flip is a quality guy who knows what he is doing.

Steve
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INTJ
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also spoke to Flip and watched the video. A fully aligned and enhanced trumpet for $2500 is a great price. Both Flip and Arturo said that while it does have resistance you can push through it, meaning the horn won’t back up on you like most ML bore horns. (I know, many players have no idea what a horn backing up in them feels like. We are all different.....)

Now there is a very distinct difference in sound. The Wild Thing has much more depth of sound and is a bit darker than the Legend—and most other horns as well. The one drawback to the WT is when you play soft the sound becomes flugel like. Great for jazz, no so much for orchestra.

I could definitely use an in-tune free-blowing horn with a smaller sound that stays compact at soft volumes for certain applications.
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epoustoufle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21trumpet wrote:
Not sure if I should be the one posting this but here is the lastest on Flip’s new trumpet.

https://youtu.be/3y9fqyuKZdk


Thanks for posting this link. About 13:46 Arturo Sandoval plays the same phrase on 2 different horns. There's a difference... to say the least. First I lolled but then I was just plain embarrassed. Poor Arturo, he doesn't have the ear to tell a difference a sound quality. Is this how it goes, you become a musical great and then debase yourself to sell units? Yay music.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

epoustoufle wrote:
21trumpet wrote:
Not sure if I should be the one posting this but here is the lastest on Flip’s new trumpet.

https://youtu.be/3y9fqyuKZdk


Thanks for posting this link. About 13:46 Arturo Sandoval plays the same phrase on 2 different horns. There's a difference... to say the least. First I lolled but then I was just plain embarrassed. Poor Arturo, he doesn't have the ear to tell a difference a sound quality. Is this how it goes, you become a musical great and then debase yourself to sell units? Yay music.


You missed what he was saying. He said he doesn't have the ear to describe differences in sound. That is a very different set of skills than the ones that make a great player. Playing is artistic. What Arturo was referring to is analytical. It's the ability to discern and identify how, where and why a sound is what it is and how it differs from another. It really has nothing to do with making music.
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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