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danny45635 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2015 Posts: 508
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: Mouthpiece recommendations In the 1 1/2C range |
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Hello everyone,
Over the last few months, I’ve come to like the Bach 1 1/2C size, and was looking for recommendations in the 1 1/2C range. I’m looking for a mouthpiece that has a slightly quicker response. I do mostly symphonic and solo work up at school to give an idea of what I do. _________________ 1965 Bach 37, Bach 236 D, Bach Artisan C, Schilke P5-4 |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece recommendations In the 1 1/2C range |
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danny45635 wrote: | Hello everyone,
Over the last few months, I’ve come to like the Bach 1 1/2C size, and was looking for recommendations in the 1 1/2C range. I’m looking for a mouthpiece that has a slightly quicker response. I do mostly symphonic and solo work up at school to give an idea of what I do. |
Monette Resonance Prana B6DS1. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Except a Monette 3 rim is closer in size, having tried both and come from a Bach 1 1/2 size. A Monette B3S3 will do just fine. _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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danny45635 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2015 Posts: 508
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Thank you I’ll look into those! A Monette with a 6 rim is closer to a 3C rim I thought? _________________ 1965 Bach 37, Bach 236 D, Bach Artisan C, Schilke P5-4 |
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YBChen Regular Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2012 Posts: 19 Location: 美国
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Yamaha 16C4 |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Used 1.5c sized pieces for quite a while, a couple really stuck and some didn't.
- Patrick 1.5c - Mt Vernon copy, very, very similar rim/cup feel to an actual Mt Vernon I had at the time... The very best I played in that size.
- Schilke 16C4 - copy of Tom Stevens Mt Vernon 1.5c, great piece and well worth a try.
- Curry 1.5C - slightly broader and rounder rim feel, but one I liked a lot, in the end my results were simply better on the Patrick, but I liked this one a lot too.
- Curry 3B. - yes it's a 3c copy (with a deeper cup) not a 1.5c copy, but size wise there's very little difference, it's the shape that's different... Again, liked it a lot but in the end the rim is almost too comfortable and I simply got better results with other pieces. |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | Except a Monette 3 rim is closer in size, having tried both and come from a Bach 1 1/2 size. A Monette B3S3 will do just fine. |
Thanks Andy, forgot to add that. B6 is a 3Cish..but the “D” is a deep cup that makes it sound/play like a 1 1/2C without the bigger rim. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
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danny45635 wrote: | Thank you I’ll look into those! A Monette with a 6 rim is closer to a 3C rim I thought? |
Yep. But the “D” makes it magical with a deep 1 1/2C like cup. Add on the Prana, larger throat, you are good to go. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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danny45635 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2015 Posts: 508
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: |
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theslawdawg wrote: | danny45635 wrote: | Thank you I’ll look into those! A Monette with a 6 rim is closer to a 3C rim I thought? |
Yep. But the “D” makes it magical with a deep 1 1/2C like cup. Add on the Prana, larger throat, you are good to go. |
Thank you! I’ll give it a try! _________________ 1965 Bach 37, Bach 236 D, Bach Artisan C, Schilke P5-4 |
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bagmangood Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Posts: 1352 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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If you're on Long Island, why not take a train in to NYC to try mouthpieces at Josh Landress? He's got a bunch of different brands in a variety of sizes.
If you want to make a longer trek you could also go to Dillon's in NJ as they also stock a pretty wide selection.
Blind buying sometimes works, often doesn't. Good luck in the search! _________________ More than one trumpet
A "few" mouthpieces |
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Dan in Sydney Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2007 Posts: 257 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Danny, let me get this straight--you like the playing qualities of the 1 1/2C, but want a mouthpiece with a quicker response...mainly for Symphonic and solo work.
The 1 1/2C is by far the biggest selling Bach mouthpiece in Europe--I don't think it would be if it had an innate response flaw. I don't think great players like Michael Sachs would feel that way about his 1 1/2C either.
A suggestion--why don't you try a few with a slightly bigger throat size--Josh Landress can do this for you--say a 25 as opposed to the standard 27, as see if that makes the difference you're looking for. Otherwise, my friend, you are in for a long, frustrating and expensive mouthpiece safari and turkeyshoot. I could make other good recommendations to you if you like--but shoot me a private message. There is still a big reason many leading players play on Bach or at least Bach based designs. _________________ Principal Trumpet,
Sydney Symphony (1978-2011)
Lecturer in Trumpet, Australian National University 1990-2010
Bach Artist and Clinician, Soloist
http://www.conn-selmer.com/en-us/artist-information/centerstage/artist-roster/daniel-mendelow/ |
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Denny Schreffler Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Since you’re specifically asking about a mpc in the 1½C range that is quicker than the Bach, look at the Curry 600. Curry now makes a “C” cup in that series.
And even quicker is the Giddings&Webster Helios 1.5M(edium). I’ve played only the M cup (which I’ve been using for about three weeks) but it might be that their Medium Deep cup would give you the sound that you want. In addition to the difference in quickness of response, a Bach C cup sounds flabby in comparison to the Giddings which sounds/feels rich but sparkly and intense at the same time.
-Denny |
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coraltrpt Regular Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2016 Posts: 88
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:12 am Post subject: |
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I'm with Daniel - stick with something you're familiar with and start by making small adjustments. A mouthpiece safari is time consuming and expensive. Opening up the throat is a good start. |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:43 am Post subject: |
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Dan in Sydney wrote: | Danny, let me get this straight--you like the playing qualities of the 1 1/2C, but want a mouthpiece with a quicker response...mainly for Symphonic and solo work.
The 1 1/2C is by far the biggest selling Bach mouthpiece in Europe--I don't think it would be if it had an innate response flaw. I don't think great players like Michael Sachs would feel that way about his 1 1/2C either.
A suggestion--why don't you try a few with a slightly bigger throat size--Josh Landress can do this for you--say a 25 as opposed to the standard 27, as see if that makes the difference you're looking for. Otherwise, my friend, you are in for a long, frustrating and expensive mouthpiece safari and turkeyshoot. I could make other good recommendations to you if you like--but shoot me a private message. There is still a big reason many leading players play on Bach or at least Bach based designs. |
I agree with Dan; get a 1-1/2C opened to a 25 throat and go from there. You also might like the Bach Artisan 1-1/2C _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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roynj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Yes, perhaps open the throat on the 1.5C. I might also suggest to work on achieving very soft and quick response with your daily practice. Try Clarke study 2, just the lower register ones (lines 27 - 32). Play them very softly, slurred AND tongued (lightly). It will only take a couple minutes of your time per day to gain an improvement. These old etudes are like a magic elixir oftentimes. |
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Mike20275 Regular Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2015 Posts: 13 Location: Omaha, NE
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:11 am Post subject: 1 1/2 C mpc |
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Try the Parke 640-275-24 for C trumpet and maybe their 640-275-26 for Bb. You can contact Dianne Parke at 760-285-2414 |
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Denny Schreffler Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Inquiring about the possibility of the enhancement of a specific quality of a certain mpc does not impugn the overall quality or acceptability of that piece, or directly imply that the mouthpiece has an, “innate response flaw.” The OP seems to want to see what a Bach 1½ C would be like if it had a quicker response.
Since the OP is doing symphonic and solo work, “up at school,” it’s almost certain that he should be playing on a throat larger than the stock #27, so all of the advice that has been given in that area is solid.
If the OP had asked about what could be done to generally improve a Bach 1½ C, the obvious first consideration would be to start opening up the throat, but, he is asking about finding a piece – in the 1½ C range – that has, “a slightly quicker response.”
I’ve played on non-stock, “opened” throats since 1967 and have opened up a lot of tpt mpc throats – on my own and in consultation with the maker or others since then – and the result has never been to make a piece “quicker” in the way that the OP probably means.
-Denny |
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ScottA Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 Posts: 618 Location: Florida
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: |
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It is important to remember that it is a complete system you are dealing with. In simple terms; Face, Mouthpiece, Horn. The mouthpiece does not work in isolation. What is the leadpipe venturi? This can have a huge effect on response as can the mouthpiece/receiver gap. Mouthpiece alpha angles can also effect response.
I don't know that the OP mentioned if he was using a Bb or C but opening the throat might not be the best idea for a Bb. Micheal Sachs sounds fine on his stock 27 throat on his Bb although he uses quite a large throat on his C. Working with the throat entrance without actually changing the size can also greatly effect things. The GR Charles Lazarus model has a more open entrance but is still a 27 and Chuck also sounds pretty good on Bb and C. BTW-that piece (Lazarus 67) is also right around a 1.5C. The GR cup models in C*, C**, and C are all progressively more open but still maintain a 27 throat and the same depth.
I am not trying to simply push the GR line as there are several excellent makers like Parke, Curry, Stomvi, Warburton and others but just encouraging you to be aware that elements other than throat size will also come into play. _________________ Scott Apelgren
Indialantic, FL |
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bdtrumpet Regular Member
Joined: 05 May 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Glendale, WI
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I tried to make a Bach 1 1/2C work for many years. I couldn't get the response I wanted either. Eventually I figured out that the Alpha angle was wrong for me. When I went to a 1C , it fit me much better because the Alpha angle is steeper into the cup which allowed more lip intrusion. To me, the biggest difference between the 1C and 1 1/2C is that alpha angle. |
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trumpet_cop Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 242
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: Re: 1 1/2 C mpc |
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[quote="Mike20275"]Try the Parke 640-275-24 for C trumpet and maybe their 640-275-26 for Bb. You can contact Dianne Parke at 760-285-2414[/quote]
Try to find them used because ordering new involves A LOT of wait time. |
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