1st valve trigger or hook

[yourbrass]

Saddle on the first slide, in such a position where I can get my thumb comfortably on the first valve casing. First thing I did to my Schilke years ago was rotate the 1st saddle to the right to get it out of the way.

Ring on the third slide - fixed or movable, doesn't matter.

-Lionel
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[ScottA]

Although all but one of my horns have a saddle or ring on the first slide I have found that when I play with a firm grip (no fingers below the 3rd slide) I have a hard time moving the saddle or ring and prefer the the ease of the trigger but not the added weight. With a split grip the saddle or ring are easy for me to use. Unfortunately I prefer to play with the firm grip so I get by but not as comfortably as I would like.
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Scott Apelgren
Indialantic, FL

[Crazy Finn]

[Louise Finch]

[Comeback]

Interesting enough topic. I think a prior poster wrote that if you like the way the horn plays and the sound you obtain the sort of hardware serving the first valve slide may not matter much. The angled 1st valve slide saddle on my Getzen 900 Eterna Classic seems to fit me near perfectly and use is intuitive, just as it should be. The trigger on my old LeBlanc 707 Sonic seems well designed and is never a distraction either. Horn maintenance is another matter, though. My horns with the 1st valve slide saddle are easier to clean and less liable to damage from tool use during the process.

Jim

[dimkr]

With small hands, you don't have much choice. It's hard to apply an exact amount of force on a trigger (to achieve the desired extension of the slide), with a sore thumb. Moreover, when I play flugel, I have no choice but to use the weak left pinkie to push the trigger. Also, anything that adds width to the valve block is a problem.

Therefore, my preference is:
1) Nothing
2) Fixed ring without sharp edges, placed close to the valve block
3) Adjustable ring without sharp edges, which can be brought close
4) Trigger

[Richard III]

Serious question here. Why a first valve adjustment at all. Older horns just had a third valve system. Gripping with the thumb and pushing something away from the valve block means releasing the grip. Do people use the first and third at the same time? That's even worse. I play an old Conn with just the adjustable third slide ring. Low D is fine with nothing and C# just a little kick out and it's all good.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[trumpet.sanity]

That's why I said "contrary" motion.

In order to use 1st and 3rd valve slides when you have a trigger in the 1st valve slide, you have to both open and close your hand at the same time.

Right?

I mean try opening your four fingers, while pushing your thumb forward...my hand doesn't want to do it

I can with open my hand with all digits, or close it. Not both.

Need more hand skills perhaps. Better call Carlos Danger for some tips.

[eviln3d]

I kind of wonder if in the end it comes down to which mechanism you started out with. I don't really buy into the theory that having a lighter weight mechanism vs a heavier one will have much if any impact on the sound of the horn... But I do suspect that if you started with a saddle then a trigger would just feel odd and vice versa... My first horn had a trigger and to me it seem natural to squeeze my left thumb.. I've tried horns with a saddles and they just don't feel right because they are different from what I got used to. In the end it comes down to personal preference. though frankly I've never understood the need for anything on the first valve as you can easily just use your lips to flatten the notes a bit.

[plankowner110]

I prefer a trigger like the original King Silver Flair 1055T. It is an ingenious design that allows fast removal of the slide with no screws to mess with.
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C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763

[cbtj51]

[cheiden]

I've not likes the triggers I've used. I think I just favor being able to grip the valve casings without having to extend my thumb.

FWIW I use my first slide about as much as I use my third.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[LittleRusty]

After reading all the posts again, I think the OP’s issue is more a misunderstanding of how these mechanisms are used.

I personally, ymmv, only use the first trigger on notes that do not include the third valve. Thus I never use both the first and third mechanisms at the same time, whether triggers or saddles.

And as I stated earlier, I use the right hand thumb on the first valve trigger. I have no issue playing one handed as mentioned by Lou. There is plenty of room between the trigger and the mouthpiece to put my thumb under the leadpipe.

edit: I have a weaker spring installed on the trigger. The original spring broke and the stock replacement spring was wwwaaayyyy too stiff.

[the_zigzagger]

[blbaumgarn]

I played a Conn 36b for ten years with a trigger and it was just fine. Mechanically, I would say it worked as well when I traded the horn as when I got it. All since have been a hook and I like them just as well. It is all a matter of adaptation. I bought a Benge with a hook and it took about two days to forget the trigger. I have played earlier Bachs with a trigger and they were fine too. To me it is a matter of adaptability. I don't think trumpet players are the most flexible sometimes. It isn't a criticism, just an observation of others and myself, too! I would never be a make or break point on my buying a used horn to have.

[alaskanaut]

I think it all comes down to what feels comfortable. I've only owned horns with a saddle for the first valve, until recently. I have a cornet with a trigger, and while I can see why people would like it, it is taking a little getting used to. It's odd that I stopped using the third valve slide as much on that horn. Which I guess is fine. Really, it comes down to what helps you keep your horn in tune, and how the mechanism works for you. I don't mind the trigger, if it functions well, but I don't think I would specifically order one on a new horn. That's just me. I know players with the opposite view too.

[Locutus2k]

I've had horns with triggers on both the 1st and 3td. Olds recording, even a Kanstul 1601 made on custom order with both triggers. They are cool, useful and i like them a lot for addressing pitch issues, but in my experience they "dampen" the horn resonance and the sound is a bit "dull" with triggers.
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Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
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[Pablopiccasso]

There is a more complex mechanism on triggers. So if it goes wrong or a screw comes out or something like that it could be a RPINTA to get fixed

Saddles can come unsoldered if the joint was not made well, but otherwise no mechanism, as such, to go wrong

[LittleRusty]