Lip Swelling with new MP?

[lexluther]

Here's a question for you folks with more experience than me. I have acquired a new MP. It is of similar depth as the one I have been using. I really like the tone and playability, heres the catch, for about an hour! After an hour or so my lips swell and my range is shot. Is this something that will go away the longer I play the MP? Or is this a sign that the piece isn't for me, and stick with my current MP? Thanks in advance!
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Bb - Schilke B6, SB4-MG Soloiste
Bb - Yamaha 8310Z II, 25th Anniversary Xeno
C - Yamaha Artist Chicago Xeno
Flugel - Getzen Custom Reserve 4895
Eb/D - Yamaha 6610
Cornet - Bach Strad 184ML

[TrumpetMD]

[lexluther]

I play a normal routine daily, lip slurs (Smith, Clark, Colin, Systematic Approach). Pretty heavy stuff, then later in the day I will go after the musical stuff. I have never done recovery days before. My chops are just used to it I guess. I played the morning stuff and the afternoon (approx 2hrs total). It was after the afternoon session that my lips were done. Can a MP make that difference? I wouldn't think it would be that big of a change. This piece has great playability until a certain point. Maybe I should just use it gradually and work up to full time on it. When I compare it to the one I am currently using there doesn't seem to be much of a difference, maybe a slightly wider rim.
_________________
Bb - Schilke B6, SB4-MG Soloiste
Bb - Yamaha 8310Z II, 25th Anniversary Xeno
C - Yamaha Artist Chicago Xeno
Flugel - Getzen Custom Reserve 4895
Eb/D - Yamaha 6610
Cornet - Bach Strad 184ML

[crose]

I have had the same experience, so my answer is yes!

Owned a Laskey 65MD. Loved the feel and liked the sound. Would shut down on me after an hour. The longer I played it, the shorter the amount of time to the shut down. Almost exact ID of my other pieces. I would rediscover it in my mouthpiece drawer every year or so and try again. It was so comfortable, but would have the same experience. I finally gave it to a student who loved it and sounded great on it.

Never had this happen with any other piece - but it does happen. It would just make my chops stop vibrating. Weirdest experience I have ever had on the horn. I play different diameters for lead and picc and they do not bother me.

[TKSop]

I suspect the GR response would be that the alpha angle must have changed, and the new piece has one that's either too high or too low?

In other words - as you swell, your old mouthpiece's shape was such that swelling didn't cause problems, but the differences with the new one are just enough that when you swell it shuts you down a bit.... or that when you start to tire, there isn't enough support to keep you going and you collapse.


I've had pieces that felt that way - great for a little while, then just switch off after a while...
Some of them felt great and then shut you down completely, some of them felt great but then felt like someone had kicked the floor out from under you - two different problems, but two problems with the same ultimate result (that during a heavy session, your playing nosedives).

[chrisf3000]

This has happened to me, too, several times. It seems that it has always been when I go from a bigger mouthpiece to a "smaller" one. Keep in mind that smaller can mean inner diameter, but it can also mean shallower, tighter throat or tighter backbore.

Whenever a mouthpiece has backed up on me, I felt swelling within a 1/2 hour or so and things shut down - then puckering starts in order to form an embouchure. IMHO the rim is one of the most important things to consider - it has to be comfortable and allow for free lip vibration. Smaller does not necessarily mean more efficient!

[Pete]

Similar dimensions does not equate to the same dimensions. Not just the cup and rim, but the backbore might be more open or tighter. The gap of the shank to the leadpipe may be different. I usually play on a Warburton 6M top. If I switch backbores, it isn't the same mouthpiece anymore. Give it time and back off the mouthpiece for a few days. Play a bit lighter rather than more aggressively.

Pete

[lexluther]

Thanks for the thoughts. I would like to make this work but I think I will take it slow. Maybe if I ease into it, I could get used to playing on it for longer periods of time. Maybe it’s not for me either. I’ll update after a bit more time on it.
_________________
Bb - Schilke B6, SB4-MG Soloiste
Bb - Yamaha 8310Z II, 25th Anniversary Xeno
C - Yamaha Artist Chicago Xeno
Flugel - Getzen Custom Reserve 4895
Eb/D - Yamaha 6610
Cornet - Bach Strad 184ML

[Andy Del]

I have a cornet mpc which does this to me. Originally, I used it in opera, and it was terrific.

Later on, in another land far far away, I was playing in a bass band. Playing non stop, and I would just hit a wall and need to stop. Weird, as it wasn't a problem on flugel, with a different mouthpiece by the same maker. They had the same cup.

I ended up deciding it was the rim into the cup which was making things hard. Getting a Monette mpc made it easy again.

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[brassmusician]

Have had similar experiences to those described here. I'm not sure I would spend too much time trying to acclimatize, some mouthpieces just don't work and are best put aside. Different alpha angle, different resistance from gap, throat, backbore, even a different shape on outside of the rim can affect success.
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Yamaha 635ST
Yamaha 16C4
Wick 2BFL

[JVL]

hello
which mpc did you play, and which one are you playing?

[cbtj51]

I have played the same mouthpiece and rim most of my adult life because it felt perfect and allowed me to get the sound, endurance, and range that I wanted and needed for the type of playing I did for most of my life. I took a necessary 14 year break from playing, moved to another city and after retiring from my day gig, came back into a totally different playing world that required a different approach and sound from anything that I had done before.

Enter a need for change; I kept the rim the same but started exploring different underpart setups. I would get so excited about my new pieces that I stayed in my routines not expecting, but experiencing the same situation that the OP described. With a need and desire to make these new pieces work, I happened into practicing as softly as I could while trying to maintain a good sound. Over a period of months, this worked out well, no swelling, no dead air, nothing but that familiar comfort of playing like the old days. Side effect: a much better overall sound than I ever had before. Change = change!

Hope this helps,

Mike
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'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces

[theslawdawg]

I’m kind of a freak because I play on all sizes of mouthpieces. When I go bigger, my lips ALWAYS swell. If I stay super shallow, no swelling. This has been going on for over three decades so one day I’ll figure it out.
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My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs

[Brad361]

Is it possible that you (OP) were a bit overly enthusiastic about the new mpce, and played considerably harder (and may still be doing that) than usual?

Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[SkinnerAlive]

Out of curiosity, what did you end up doing? I've had similar problems with swelling and would like to know if you were able to overcome this obstacle or not!

[lexluther]

I sold it, and quit trying to use it.
_________________
Bb - Schilke B6, SB4-MG Soloiste
Bb - Yamaha 8310Z II, 25th Anniversary Xeno
C - Yamaha Artist Chicago Xeno
Flugel - Getzen Custom Reserve 4895
Eb/D - Yamaha 6610
Cornet - Bach Strad 184ML

[lexluther]