View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:16 pm Post subject: Keyboard as Trumpet Improv Resource |
|
|
I just got a Roland Juno Di mobile synthesizer and while I’m a rank beginner on keys I’m wondering how I can best use it to improve my improv skills on trumpet.
Any suggestions? _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
brassmusician Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 273
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grab the C version of your favorite jazz standard and learn to voice the chords (plenty of online help available or an Aebersold volume usually has them) and then play the chord progression. It may be easiest to play the root of the chord in your left hand and rest of the chord in your right hand. Go really slow to begin with. Have fun. _________________ Cannonball 789RL
Yamaha 635ST
Yamaha 16C4
Wick 2BFL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
brassmusician wrote: | Grab the C version of your favorite jazz standard and learn to voice the chords (plenty of online help available or an Aebersold volume usually has them) and then play the chord progression. It may be easiest to play the root of the chord in your left hand and rest of the chord in your right hand. Go really slow to begin with. Have fun. |
This.^^
And get Phil DeGreg's book, "Jazz Keyboard Harmony" and work through it at your own slow pace. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
khedger Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 754 Location: Cambridge, MA
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
also Hal Crook has a keyboard/chord book out that's pretty good. Another thing you can do is play the chords in your left hand (this can just be in 'root' position, and you don't have to do them 'in time') and experiment with different scales that sound good in the right. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks, guys! _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Keyboard as Trumpet Improv Resource |
|
|
jhatpro wrote: | I just got a Roland Juno Di mobile synthesizer and while I’m a rank beginner on keys I’m wondering how I can best use it to improve my improv skills on trumpet.
Any suggestions? |
One disclaimer is that I think the best way to get better at jazz improv is to incorporate the jazz vocabulary (scales, patterns, style) and jazz standards (page 10 of Aebersold's free jazz handbook) into your daily practice routine on the trumpet.
After this, I think that learning the piano is a great way to improve your jazz improv skills. FWIW, piano is my second instrument (after trumpet), and I have regular gigs on the piano, usually as a piano / bass duo.
A simple option is to just learn the chords on the piano, to get the feel of the harmonic structure of the songs you're learning on the trumpet. After this, you can maybe work on playing rootless chords with your left hand while playing melodies with your right hand.
A good book is Jerry Coker's "Jazz Keyboard For Pianist and Non-Pianists". This book assumes you already have an understanding of jazz and chords, and is just meant to help you transfer this knowledge to the piano
If you're really ambitious, more challenging books I've used include Dan Haerle's "Jazz Improvisation for Keyboard Players" and John Valerio's "Jazz Piano Technique".
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
More great tips and resources - thanks, Doc! _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Keyboard as Trumpet Improv Resource |
|
|
TrumpetMD wrote: |
A good book is Jerry Coker's "Jazz Keyboard For Pianist and Non-Pianists". This book assumes you already have an understanding of jazz and chords, and is just meant to help you transfer this knowledge to the piano
Mike |
Thanks for the rec, I just purchased. I've been meaning to study my chord voicings and based on my success with Coker's "Patterns for Jazz," I expect this to be a great resource as well.
Cheers. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you don't already know it, learn functional theory; learn why certain chords have the construction that they do and how they move harmonically. How they move towards their tonic, which may be implied rather than obvious.
Know that many jazz or standard tunes modulate momentarily and frequently, so the scales you use are based, not always on the overall key that you're in, but on the context of momentary modulation. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is just from my memory of reading the book. I have not looked it up, but as I recall, in Dizzy Gillespie's autobiography, he said that Miles Davis once said asked him how he (Miles) could get to play with such speed and complexity as Dizzy. Dizzy told him that it was his (Dizzy's) time spent on the keyboard that enabled him to get that way. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There was no connection between his physical dexterity and playing piano made. Miles asked him how to be a better improviser and Diz answered, "Learn to play piano", meaning the character of scales and harmonic movement. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EBjazz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 2368 Location: SF Bay Area
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Denny Schreffler Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Tucson
|
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I thought that I might have seen it in a video, too, but I can't find it -- In person, I've heard Arturo mention that he will vizualize the piano keyboard as he imporvises.
I found that very interesting because I do the same thing, albeit with nothing close to Maestro's ability.
-Denny |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
|
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Keyboard as Trumpet Improv Resource |
|
|
Turkle wrote: | TrumpetMD wrote: |
A good book is Jerry Coker's "Jazz Keyboard For Pianist and Non-Pianists". This book assumes you already have an understanding of jazz and chords, and is just meant to help you transfer this knowledge to the piano
Mike |
Thanks for the rec, I just purchased. I've been meaning to study my chord voicings and based on my success with Coker's "Patterns for Jazz," I expect this to be a great resource as well.
Cheers. |
Update: The book arrived in the mail and I've practiced out of it a few times. It's a great resource for those that already know their jazz theory and want to jump right into comping. It's definitely NOT a resource for soloing/improvising on the piano - the focus is 100% on comping. But it really lets you get started in a hurry and I'm already able to comp over ii-V7-I progressions, albeit slowly. It's fun!
I've been using it in conjunction with the iRealPro app - just turn off the piano sound and play along with drums and bass in any key and tempo. Great! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Coolcol123 New Member
Joined: 26 May 2017 Posts: 5
|
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Great tips, thanks for all the posts! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
|
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dizzy and i believe miles were always going on about how we needed to develop some piano playing to better understand music. great subject. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
khedger Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 754 Location: Cambridge, MA
|
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I was just browsing through the book for Aebersold's ii-V7-1 volume today and in the back discovered a table of piano voicings for a crapload of progressions. Practicing these will help get these progression into your ear and give you some theoretical basis for learning this fundamental progression. Once you can handle these, you could then start thinking about (and practicing) the chord scales that go along with them. Then transfer this practice to the horn. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|