Smoke and Horns

LPDO1966 · New Member Joined: 10 Apr 2010 Posts: 2

Hello everybody!

This is my first post, I apologize if this threat was discussed before, have no time to read all past threads.

OK.

I'm a Sound Engineer, and a friend of mine (who is a BE too) tolds me that Brass players on his band, complains about the fog created with a smoke machine.

They said that smoke "muffles" sound of trumpets. Said too, that it's no by affecting lungers, but directly instruments.

In fact, my friend tolds me that sound of trumpet (captured by microphones) indeed diminishes on every smoke discharge...

What you can tell me about it?

Thanks!!!

WildCat · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 1820

Well, considering it's another medium to travel through before reaching someone's ears, it would technically be true that it diminishes sound. Really though, I couldn't believe it would have an absolutely detrimental effect on a sound wave carrying to the mic, which should be less than a foot away. Their perception could be mostly a mental game they're playing with themselves, but then again, there could be some sort of scientific facts I'm unaware of.

I've personally never had much of an issue with fog machines, other than the fact I think the effect has been used in cheesy ways on shows I've played. You might be the first sound guy I've encountered, who actually cares enough about an issue expressed by a horn player, to go and research their claim. Honestly, it's refreshing, in an environment where the horns are usually turned down/off, so people can hear more of a kick drum.

Whatever happens with live sound, though, it's always important horn players hear themselves, otherwise we have no sense of balance, and will always overcompensate. That just leads to a catch-22 of more work at the board, followed by more work for the horns, and so on.

Again, I'm pleasantly surprised at your concern of this. You'll make some poor horn players very happy.

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fraserhutch · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject:

I have found that some fog and smoke systems leave a residue. I have had to clean this stuff out of my horn before. Not pretty.
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Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject:

Ditto what fraserhutch said. The fog also changes the humidity, changing the effective pitch (humidity, like temperature, has a first-order impact on pitch). The density change also changes the refractive index, among other things...
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Ed Lee · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:57 am Post subject:

My concern would be the chemicals used by the special effects technician. The only time I've encountered such was in performance of Brigadoon where dry ice being reduced with water was propelled by fan onto stage to lay the effect of ground hugging fog on a moor and it spilled over into the pit making it very difficult to see the music and chilly. It may have altered tone, but I couldn't tell as we all were wearing headsets to get our cues.

Craig Swartz · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:03 am Post subject:

I wish this was all I ever had to worry about... Just basic bad vibes between me and the conductor could eliminate the sound of my trumpet altogether.

Ed Lee · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:00 am Post subject:

LPDO1966 · New Member Joined: 10 Apr 2010 Posts: 2

NMex · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:58 am Post subject:

I don't like fog machines for two reasons.

1. The effect is cheesy anymore. Really. Unless you're doing some kind of Sleepy Hollow stageshow, leave the smoke machine at home.

2. Unless you're using a real dry-ice system, the effect is uncontrollable. The chemicals dry-out my mouth, making it very difficult to play. And, the effect is still cheesy.

Do your horn players and vocalists a favor - don't make them have to perform in the fog.

Regards,
NMex
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KingSilverSonic · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject:

Ed Lee · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject:

razeontherock · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject:

O/P is looking for more technical info, but it's all here:

Brad361 · Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject:

Howie J · Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:01 pm Post subject:

I have both a fogger and a Hazer at work. We rarely use the fogger. In fact I don't think I've ever plugged it in during my short, 2 yr tenure so far. The LaMaitre Renaissance Hazer uses Neutron haze fluid which is water based. Most fog fluid is oil based which is what is obviously leaving everyone in a sticky/oily situation.

We are using both a hazer and a dry ice fogger for our current running production of Into the Woods. Light Haze from the ceiling and dry ice on command coming out of the set. It actually looks pretty cool and it never gets close enough to the pit to knock off our musicians.

Word of wisdom...both fog and haze do not play well with particle based fire alarms/detectors.

Howie J
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gigigal · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:48 pm Post subject:

Friday I had a bad experience with fog machine in a live performance.
Every smoke discharge my trumpet starts to suffer....no sound out of the bell, just smoke, and the sound was like the sound you have when you play with the water key of the main tuning slide OPEN.

The man of the service told me that it was PROEL oil for that machine, so be carefull with that brand.
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