• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Calicchio horn lost in transit. Please help!


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 10198
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr_trumpet wrote:
Croquethed wrote:
Sell it to the original owner?

If the original owner had it stolen in transit, this guy is willing to sell it back to him?

Hmmmm.


If the original owner has proof that this instrument is his, this is a clear case of dealing in stolen property, regardless of how the current seller received it. A local pawn shop is not given its money back when you walk in with proof an item is stolen, they hand it over and the matter is between them and the individual who sold it to them. If you accept stolen merchandise (even if unknown), and if it can be proven stolen (even if unknown), the current person in possession of the merchandise is guilty of criminal conversion, a crime in every state (and lots of other places). I'd hire a lawyer where the rightful owner is, and have them contact eBay. Point out these facts, and give eBay 24 hours to make it right. IF they fail, they are guilty of advertising and profiting from the sale of stolen merchandise.

Fact....

If the OP really wants the horn, and from his posts I believe he does, it might be wise to purchase the horn so you have it in your possession before taking action.


The USPS might be moved to reimburse the purchase cost if the OP can prove he has the horn and they, the USPS, lost(sold) it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
HaveTrumpetWillTravel
Veteran Member


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 174
Location: East Asia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's possible there is a group selling stolen instruments, but it's as likely that USPS loses a ton of packages, the packages containing instruments get bundled, and the ebay seller is one of the guys that buys those bundles (which means a certain part of their business is selling instruments USPS shouldn't have lost). 'Don't ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.'

In this case, in the ideal world, the seller sells it at cost and USPS pays the cost to the original owner. Hopefully we also all learn the "I told you so" advice (insure your instrument, avoid USPS, if something is stolen do what OP did and get the serial number out there, etc.).
_________________
"A man gets older, has a career, a few kids, and suddenly there's a hole in his life that can only be filled by jamming." The Simpsons, season 26 episode 8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 10198
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
It's possible there is a group selling stolen instruments, but it's as likely that USPS loses a ton of packages, the packages containing instruments get bundled, and the ebay seller is one of the guys that buys those bundles (which means a certain part of their business is selling instruments USPS shouldn't have lost). 'Don't ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.'

In this case, in the ideal world, the seller sells it at cost and USPS pays the cost to the original owner. Hopefully we also all learn the "I told you so" advice (insure your instrument, avoid USPS, if something is stolen do what OP did and get the serial number out there, etc.).

Actually I believe both of your possibilities are true.

And I believe that neither have any bearing in this case. To me it looks like there is a USPS employee spotting expensive items and getting them into the auction flow.

The lesson to be learned is to avoid shipping your valuables around the country. (Similar horror stories have been posted about UPS and fedex)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
razeontherock
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10511
Location: The land of GR and Getzen

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetjaguar wrote:
Does USPS keep track of what they sell at their auctions?


You can't send uninsured via USPS. At the very least it has $50 in insurance, and a tracking number. How does it go from being shipped, to sold at auction?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
razeontherock
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10511
Location: The land of GR and Getzen

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

novaj5 wrote:
Thank you BillyM. I'll ask him for the proof. Should help me at least track down if it's valid.


The proof of him having purchased a "music lot" means nothing. It doesn't identity your specific horn, nor does it list the serial number. It's just an excuse.

This guy's a pro, part of a racket, and thinks he has the system beat. He doesn't. Cops won't do a thing without a serial number, but you've got it and he doesn't. John Duda probably also has the record of when you bought it from him, along with serial number. All the previous times you sent it in for service are further proof that you are the owner of that horn, again by serial number.

Get all this information and present it to the Police! Let's see this guy fry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 10198
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

razeontherock wrote:
novaj5 wrote:
Thank you BillyM. I'll ask him for the proof. Should help me at least track down if it's valid.


The proof of him having purchased a "music lot" means nothing. It doesn't identity your specific horn, nor does it list the serial number. It's just an excuse.

This guy's a pro, part of a racket, and thinks he has the system beat. He doesn't. Cops won't do a thing without a serial number, but you've got it and he doesn't. John Duda probably also has the record of when you bought it from him, along with serial number. All the previous times you sent it in for service are further proof that you are the owner of that horn, again by serial number.

Get all this information and present it to the Police! Let's see this guy fry.

All good advice, except as Mike Thompson, who lost two horns to this scam, posted, the police will not allow a report to be filed unless your have the real name and address of the purported thief.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Speed
Regular Member


Joined: 13 May 2015
Posts: 89
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any real certainty the seller is actually in Georgia? Can't he put whatever location he chooses in that ebay field? If this guy is involved in a racket that steals goods from a USPS center and then sells them on ebay, surely he's not dumb enough to put his true location.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HaveTrumpetWillTravel
Veteran Member


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 174
Location: East Asia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know... a lot of broken instruments go through the mail every day. In this case, whoever would steal the trumpet would have to be able to gauge the brand and value pretty quickly. I had never heard of Calicchio until I started hanging out here, and the resale value of "good condition" instruments doesn't seem super high ($600-$1500 for silver instruments).

I don't know how good USPS is at tracking this stuff. At least the ebay store should now be on their radar if there is anything sketchy going on.

With the police report, there should still be a way to report something "stolen" or "missing" without knowing who has it. I would imagine many conventional insurance companies require this. In this case, the OP being overseas probably complicates things.
_________________
"A man gets older, has a career, a few kids, and suddenly there's a hole in his life that can only be filled by jamming." The Simpsons, season 26 episode 8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 10198
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
I don't know... a lot of broken instruments go through the mail every day. In this case, whoever would steal the trumpet would have to be able to gauge the brand and value pretty quickly. I had never heard of Calicchio until I started hanging out here, and the resale value of "good condition" instruments doesn't seem super high ($600-$1500 for silver instruments).

The thief is not an investor, they simply steal and get a percentage from the fence. Trumpets are a good bet when it comes to value, therefore one does not really need to know the value.

I don't know enough about the USPS processes, but the thief could very easily find out the value and contents of the box by looking at the insurance papers, which must be online internally.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mm55
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1161

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed wrote:
Is there any real certainty the seller is actually in Georgia? Can't he put whatever location he chooses in that ebay field? If this guy is involved in a racket that steals goods from a USPS center and then sells them on ebay, surely he's not dumb enough to put his true location.

The USPS "dead parcel office" or whatever they call it these days is in the Atlanta area, but they don't auction parcels any more. They contract a private company to do the auctions. I think that company is also in Atlanta. The whole situation sure has the appearance of an organized crime ring.
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'89 Rudy Mück Conductor crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 10198
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mm55 wrote:
Speed wrote:
Is there any real certainty the seller is actually in Georgia? Can't he put whatever location he chooses in that ebay field? If this guy is involved in a racket that steals goods from a USPS center and then sells them on ebay, surely he's not dumb enough to put his true location.

The USPS "dead parcel office" or whatever they call it these days is in the Atlanta area, but they don't auction parcels any more. They contract a private company to do the auctions. I think that company is also in Atlanta. The whole situation sure has the appearance of an organized crime ring.

They now use the online auction site GovDeals out of Alabama.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
novaj5
Regular Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I'd wait until the horn is actually handed to John Duda, which could happen today, but as I see fellow TH'ers leaving their comments here (which I am VERY appreciative of), I'll just write some updates.

I thought of what I could do, but things didn't look like they were working in my favor. I checked the dates with USPS and 'technically' it was possible for them to give out my horn to the USPS auction. What I've also found out later was that it would've been better if I made claims to USPS and file a report separately (they told me it's a separate thing, working in 2 ways? I still don't understand this, but...) Staying up as late as 4~6 a.m. daily (to call people in the US) and working on this just wore me out and it was also effecting my day job.

So then I turned around and tried looking at the reality as is. I messaged the seller and asked him that, given that he has the legal ownership at the moment, if he's at all interested in selling it to me at or near the price he's gotten it at. He did offer selling it to me at the price he started, which was $200, and didn't charge any extra for shipping. I accepted it.

I am actually surprised to see him responding this way. I still think there must be something fishy going on. It's frustrating that this seller is the only lead we've got at the end of the whole thing, but whether this seller guy is actually involved or not, I wouldn't know. However, I think it's safe to say that there definitely ARE problems with USPS. I'm expecting Thompson Music to put some pressure on them. 2 new Van Laar horns is a major loss.

With the cost of $200, I did somehow get ~$150 worth of compensation money from the local post office here, so there's no big financial damage about that. I need to do some catch up with my day job so I can't spend too much time on this right now, but I'll try to keep you with updates if anything's up.

Again, thank you so much for chipping in, guys. It's just been amazing all the way.
_________________
Jay
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2
Calicchio 1s/7 - Serial #7550 - Sorely missing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DrKristensen
New Member


Joined: 04 Jun 2018
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very happy to hear that it appears that you are finally getting your horn back (although I guess we cannot be really sure until you actually have it in your hands)! Please let us know.

If I ever ship a horn or anything else of material value myself, I have certainly picked up a number of tips here. I had no idea things could be so complicated with companies such as eBay and USPS. Especially the fact that you need the real name and address of a seller to even file a report with the police caught me by surprise. That's one big loophole for dishonest sellers on eBay and a major problem.
_________________
Kjetil Kristensen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
novaj5
Regular Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It arrived yesterday afternoon and John Duda's got it now. Thank god...

One thing though, is that the seller just threw it into the box with no bubble wrap or any padding. I am not sure what made him so bitter but now it's even more confusing what code of conduct this guy is following...

Well at least the horn is there and apparently John says he can't find any extra damages on the horn. I'll have John take care of it fortunately.
_________________
Jay
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2
Calicchio 1s/7 - Serial #7550 - Sorely missing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mm55
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1161

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

novaj5 wrote:
It arrived yesterday afternoon and John Duda's got it now. Thank god...

One thing though, is that the seller just threw it into the box with no bubble wrap or any padding. I am not sure what made him so bitter but now it's even more confusing what code of conduct this guy is following...

Well at least the horn is there and apparently John says he can't find any extra damages on the horn. I'll have John take care of it fortunately.

So did you get the seller's address? If so, I think Thompson Music would be very interested in this information.
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'89 Rudy Mück Conductor crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HaveTrumpetWillTravel
Veteran Member


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 174
Location: East Asia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yikes! Glad you have a happy reunion in your future, and sorry for the series of unfortunate events.

This is meant only slightly tongue in cheek, but you might want to read Min Kym's "Gone: A Girl, a Violin, a Life Unstrung." It's her memoir of losing her strad, getting it back, and losing it again, and it's a quite good read. It really threw her over the edge. I think we trumpet players are probably a little more utilitarian about our instruments, but it can be a real loss.

Best of luck on the rest of the trumpet's journey!
_________________
"A man gets older, has a career, a few kids, and suddenly there's a hole in his life that can only be filled by jamming." The Simpsons, season 26 episode 8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group