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michael_bxl Regular Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Between Brussels and Ankara
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:07 pm Post subject: Practice on a bad trumpet |
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Hello,
I have little question. I have a lot of time at work but I can not carry my trumpet everyday. I have a pocket trumpet there (does an OK job for a pocket trumpet), but of the the intonation and everything is not perfect.
Do you think that practicing with a "bad trumpet" twice a week can damage my playing ? Is it preferable not to play ? Or to adapt the exercices ?
Thanks for your answer |
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trumpetchops Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:21 am Post subject: |
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I think playing on it isn't the best thing but, better than not playing. _________________ Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct. |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9365 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Turn a deaf ear to the intonation and don't compensate for it. Stick to basic stuff like long tones and scales. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:30 am Post subject: |
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How many minutes do you practice with it in a week? _________________ Bill Bergren |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:42 am Post subject: |
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I think it really depends on how bad the horn is. A lot of practice is about refinement and with a bad horn you may be doomed to just compensating for its deficiencies. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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michael_bxl Regular Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Between Brussels and Ankara
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your indications.
Let's say I would practice with it "2 days * 2 sessions of 45 min" = 3 hours a week. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:50 am Post subject: |
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When playing a wind instrument you will gravitate towards humoring some notes and other quirks and they carry over to another horn, unconciously.
If you have a flat E and get used to "lipping" it up until it becomes second nature, then play another horn with a spot-on or sharp E, you will automatically lip the E up, making it on horn #2 sharp.
Additionally, while I understand the wisdom of playing isolated tones, which is one way of dealing with out of tune notes, you are also developing in your ear a false pitch. I wouldn't personally do this.
IMO you would have much more luck in the long run by buying another pocket trumpet that is higher quality and closer in intonation to your regular trumpet. I used a Carol pocket trumpet which didn't cost that much and was an excellent horn.
You might even consider a cornet which, if put in a gig bag can be quite unobtrusive. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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michael_bxl Regular Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Between Brussels and Ankara
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:31 am Post subject: |
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I hear you. It seems logical. You are right.
I wanted to ask this as a general question that may interest other players...
...but as for the pocket trumpet, the one I got has the same $ value than the Carol Brass (After some researches, mine it is the same generic model used by : Max, Manschester, Schagerl, Phaeton, Fasch and Kessler and son). It is not "bad", but different, the way we have to hold it, the non practical slides... I regret indeed I didn't bought a cornet. |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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If the horn doesn't work, just get rid of it. You will rue the time spent either ignoring poor intonation (learning to accept our of tune as correct) or trying to play in tune and learning to temper certain notes incorrectly for your normal instrument.
The trumpet is a small instrument. Just use your trumpet. Getting a pocket trumpet or cornet to save space is, when you look objectively at it, just nonsense. Tuba players don't bother with this sort of stuff and they would be the ones who actually need it!
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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chrisf3000 Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 347 Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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I would invest in a decent trumpet, if you can afford it, and then use a Yamaha silent brass. You don't even have to use the box that comes with it, just the mute part. There are other posts on the TH about practice mutes, but one of my preferred ones is the Wallace "studio" mute. Even a good Yamaha student model with a mute is better than a bad pocket trumpet, IMHO. |
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blbaumgarn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:20 pm Post subject: Practice on a bad trumpet |
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I kind of defeats all the reasons we practice to accept intonation or any other thing bad about an instrument that inhibits getting better. One person suggested getting a cornet. Good idea and you can find one that will play in tune and work for $150 or so easily. The Carol pockets are popular because they work. If I was shooting a gun for target practice and determined that the only reason I had a spread pattern on target was the load I was using, I wouldn't keep using that load as it affects what I hope is a positive result. I am not advocating shooting anything, just get the best out of the practice time you have! good Luck |
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michael_bxl Regular Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Between Brussels and Ankara
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks again for your advise. I hope it may help others to avoid to do the same "mistake" |
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khedger Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 754 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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My answer would depend on how experienced a player you are. If you have been playing for less than a couple of years, then I would not recommend practicing on a horn like this if you have a choice. Better to just use the mouthpiece and buzz. The reason I say this is that if you are that inexperienced you haven't really had a chance to establish a sound on the instrument or even start to develop the ability to play in tune consistently. Practicing on this horn would just exacerbate these problems more than the benefit of the time on the horn.
However, if you're experienced enough to be establishing a sound and some ability to at least recognize intonation problems and be able to compensate for them some, then the benefits of the horn time would probably outweigh the risks. |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | When playing a wind instrument you will gravitate towards humoring some notes and other quirks and they carry over to another horn, unconciously.
If you have a flat E and get used to "lipping" it up until it becomes second nature, then play another horn with a spot-on or sharp E, you will automatically lip the E up, making it on horn #2 sharp. |
You dont use your ears? I am a big advocate for playing consciously, not automatically. _________________ BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces. |
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boog Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, if you just want to practice long tones, get a cheap bugle. Even a plastic one would work. I have done this on many trips.
A cornet works fine, also, and you can practice exercises and scales on it. One of those "practice mutes" work if you are concerned with bothering someone with the sound. I usually carry one of my Conn Directors on trips with me. In a suitcase... |
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pinstriper Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2013 Posts: 340 Location: Portlandia, OR
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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I have the Manchester Brass pocket.
Intonation is pretty much dead on. By my ear (I used to tune pianos and pipe organs) and also by meter.
But....
It is a different blow from my Kanstul 1070. No doubt about it. More effort, but I do hear more feedback from it - probably because everything including the bell is that much closer to my ears.
I have played the MB at a gig (farmers market, where I had some doubt about the security of the setting) and the section went from "hey look at that" to "heeeeeeeeey.....look at THAT". Everyone who tried it agreed it had a good sound and played in tune at least as well as their ability to hear.
But again...except for questionable venues, I don't gig on it - though when I do I don't have major concerns. I absolutely use it when traveling/camping to just do long tones, flexibility exercises and the like.
I think any time you spend on another instrument has the potential to teach you DIFFERENT habbits (not good or bad, per se). It is a great backup instrument, and the fact that it is so compact is just a bonus.
The above has to be understood in the context of me being a not-very-good-hack-of-a-comebacker/never-was-er. _________________ ~'77 DEG Dynasty II Soprano Bugle in G
'13 Chinese POS "Hawk" branded Flugel
'59 Olds Ambassador Cornet
'51 Olds Super
'69 Olds Studio
'40 Olds Special Cornet, Military Issued |
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