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Schilke 15A4A vs. 14A4a


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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
What was the geneses of the 14A4A's mystique in the first place?


As is standard with the "a4a" line, it was originally a custom - in the case of the 14a4a, for Forrest Buchtel... designed for playing above the staff for prolonged periods, which it's great for (if it suits you, which it may well not).

Thanks, TK.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Schilke 15A4A vs. 14A4a Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
It's specialized equipment... and like any specialized equipment, it's absolutely critical that it's a good match for you

Gentle snarking aside, I'll concede that casual big band sections players may not need the same quality of sound as some other players, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I do squirm a bit when any player seems to suffer significant sound quality compromise by using gear they hope will ultimately help upstairs.
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Betelgeuse215
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once had to use a 14a4a for an orchestra rehearsal because I had left mine at home. It was comical to say the least
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jaysonr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an interesting post from Allen Vizzutti which mentions his equipment and use of the 14A4 (his had a symphonic backbore rather than the a, so it would've been a 14A4d):

Quote:
Early years - my Dad - who taught me owned a music store so I always had nice instruments beginning with the line of Conn cornets & trumpets, all in Bb culminating with the Constellation. Enter Doc Severinsen - guest artist when I was about 15. He heard me and gave me his Getzen Eterna. My starting mouthpiece was certainly a Bach 7C or 3C although I'm not sure. I remember trying some Conn and Olds mouthpieces along the way but not how long I might have used them. I ended up on a Bach 10&1/2C which I used for a long time. By today's standards that mouthpiece is not as shallow as it's reputation would imply. Plus Bach quality control and size consistency has always been legendarily bad.

During H.S. I went to Interlochen Music Camp for 2 summers and having been influenced by orchestral students there I tried to switch to a Bach 1&1/2. That lasted about a week and I said 'never again with the toilet bowls'. I had acquired a Getzen C trumpet by this time. Then I went to Eastman School of Music.

At ESM we had opportunity to experiment with mouthpieces, visit NYC and share ideas with other great trumpet players. I soon had new demands playing lead in big band, playing in the Rochester Phil, playing shows, chamber orchestra and in the faculty Eastman Brass Quintet etc. Firstly, the Getzen horns didn't make it as far as sound intonation and control. (The Eterna is pretty good as a solo instrument though and I kept my Getzen 4 valve flugel). I went to NYC and bought a Bach C and a Benge 3X-plus Bb with help from colleagues and a desire to match the 1st trumpet in the brass quintet. Trumpets were cheap in New York then.

The wild thing is the mouthpiece I was using successfully throughout these years on both C and Bb. I kept it quiet because I knew it had a negative stigma. It was a lucky find and a mistake. Schilke made a mouthpiece I ordered incorrectly and it worked great for me. I ordered a 14A4a. 14 diameter, A cup, 4 contour rim and an 'a' backbore - very tight. They sent me a 14A4 with a symphonic backbore - very large. It was definitely bright if you weren't careful but I was careful and it made many aspects of playing much easier. I played 1st on Mahler 5 on it, the Jolivet and Tomasi Concerti on it, big band on it and many other styles. I won an orchestral audition on it. Next came a choice. I had an offer to go with Woody Herman big band or join the San Antonio Symphony.

Woody's band was my choice. I thought is wise to attempt to up my game - volume and intensity. I had tried a Schilke 13A4 as an experiment to see if even smaller would be better and I couldn't play the thing AT ALL. Too small. Too stuffy. Too narrow. And it was only 1 size smaller. So I decided to have a custom Schilke piece made splitting the difference between the two sizes. The best comparison I have come up to describe the mouthpiece because I am often asked, is not very accurate but is - Bach 4E - which they don't make.

That was the beginning of the genealogy of my current mouthpiece. Various cities I visited on tour after that had mouthpiece makers and I would have them copy the Schilke without any other instruction. They always turned out different from my original and sometimes for the better. I used a Ghiardinelli for a long time, then a Maracinkiewicz, then the Yamaha Vizzutti design series we developed in Japan which is still available and very good. Recently, having been encouraged to visit Pickett Brass in Lexington, I switched to a version by Peter Pickett. He's a fine trumpet player, an engineer who really knows his stuff, and uses a computer lathe. It's available to the pubic at Pickett Brass.com. The computer lathe copies are perfect.

My set of mouthpieces now is as follows.
Bb - Pickett Brass custom
Piccolo - Pickett Brass custom with matched rim, slightly deeper cup and large backbore.
Flugel - Pickett Brass with his flugel cup & matched rim. (I don't know which cup of his he used).
C trumpet, (and more classical sound on Bb) - Yamaha version of original AV mouthpiece with slightly deeper cup.

After I first toured Japan with Chick Corea Yamaha approached me to try, evaluate and become involved with their trumpets and the rest, as they say, is history. Now I play the Vizzutti model Bb - 9335V and all the other Yamaha trumpets as needed. They are world class.

Factiod: the only trumpets i have kept from my past are the Getzen Doc gave me, my Dad's original Martin Committee model he bought as a kid, and a French Besson flugel I bought in the 70's.

In my opinion, modern horns and mouthpieces are far superior to the old stuff even though some vintage horns have endearing qualities.

Whew. Hope this helps. AV


Source: http://vizzutti.forumotion.com/t8-equipment-history
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting, man. Thanks.
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Hans Hoyer G10 French Horn
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaysonr wrote:
Here is an interesting post from Allen Vizzutti which mentions his equipment and use of the 14A4 (his had a symphonic backbore rather than the a, so it would've been a 14A4d).

I'm a HUGE Allen Vizzutti fan. I hold him in near god-like regard. I've seen him live with a local community college fronting both their wind ensemble and their jazz band. I sat their most of the time with my jaw on the floor. But at one point I found my ears being drawn to the student playing lead whose sound was significantly bigger. I did some research about Al and his approach and recall reading that he acknowledges that his sound as a soloist is by design lighter than that of someone playing principal in a symphony or lead in a bag band. I suspect that the gear and approach he uses for "The Carnival of Venus" may differ if he's playing in a role other than as a soloist.
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Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
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mbarry
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Joined: 23 May 2004
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Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for reposting that Vizzutti post. Lots of great information in there.

I played a 14A4A and then switched to a 14A4. The A4 is a much better mouthpiece, IMO, because the C backbore gives it a much broader sound. The 14A4A can give you problems with intonation and blend if you don't have absolutely iron-clad control over it.
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