Choosing a leadpipe - bell combo for a Bach Stradivarius

O00Joe

My very first professional level trumpet, a silver plated Bach Stradivarius ML 37/25 was damaged pretty badly recently. The only parts that survived unscathed is the valve section and valve slides so I essentially need a replacement bell and leadpipe.

Since I don't need another ML 37/25 because I purchased another one already, I've decided to repair the damaged horn with a new leadpipe and bell. What I'd like to make is a Bb trumpet that can be nimble, colorful, and useful for chamber music.

So far the combos that I've been thinking about are:
25 bell/6 leadpipe
72 bell/43 leadpipe

I'm running on the assumption I would purchase the bell and leadpipe from Mouthpiece Express and have a local, trusted repair guy do the work for me.

I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks.
_________________
1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - Laskey 60C
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C25C
2006 Bb/A Schilke Piccolo P5-4 silver - Reeves A adaptor - Stork SM SP6
Akai MPC Live II
Roland JD-Xi
Casio MT-68

Pete · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:51 am Post subject:

I played a regular 37 with a 43 pipe years ago and it played great. The 43 pipe is a bit more open. I also play a 43*/43 and have liked the way the 43 pipe has played on all of my Bachs. The 25 pipe is just too tight in my opinion.

Pete

Turkle · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:57 am Post subject:

I have a Bach L bore 25 bell that I've been meaning to put a 6 pipe on forever.
I bought the 6 pipe, just can't find the time to get it over to Josh Landress' shop...

My suspicion is that a 25 bell / 6 pipe might be too restrictive in the ML bore - I've always heard of this as a L bore configuration. But it's worth a shot!

If it were me, I'd go with a 43/72* - put a lightweight 72 bell on that standard-weight body and I'll bet that horn will sing for chamber music!

Have fun!
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trumpet_cop · Veteran Member Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 242

jengstrom · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:07 am Post subject:

1. The OP didn't seem to have any complaints about stock 37's being restrictive, and many of the suggestions so far suggest more open configurations. If that's what the OP wants, then the above suggestions are great. However, if not, then stick with a 25 or 25-O leadpipe and figure out which bell you want.
2. The 72* bell tends to have a darker, fuller sound (unless you really step on the gas). For chamber music, I would think a lighter, brighter sound is desired. With that in mind, I suggest a 43 or 43* bell.

Just my 2 cents.

John
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lipshurt · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:16 am Post subject:

If you want something for brass quintet, and it needs to be different than you 37/25, I would not get a 43 pipe. I would say that none of the combinations mentioned so far would be as good for quintet as your 37/25.

For a nice option on some quinte literature maybe go to a cornet sound? That would mean a darker bell, and Bach does not really have any.

Here are some nice big bells that work well on a Bach body with 25 pipe (stick with the 25 pipe) :

Schilke or Yamaha large bell (old Yamaha 636, later Z, schilke B1,)

Calichio big bell

Not sure where you would get those though. Just stuff I had
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OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441

In your position, I would try to build-up something closer to pre-Selmer days, but with a modern twist.

If the goal is more church work, baroque pieces, etc, where more crystal and bright tone is desired on demand, then I would put a 43* on with either a standard 25 pipe, or preferably (the twist) a 25LR.

If the goal is more quintet work with woodwinds etc., then I would lean toward the 72* instead, but the 25 pipe.

These combinations, with weighted caps unless your valves happen to be Early Elkhart, will reproduce more of the feel and responsiveness of old Bach horns from the 50s and before. That response, and the easy control of both tone and dynamic, make playing in these settings where every nuance of your playing stands out, a lot easier and more fun.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

cheiden · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 am Post subject:

I'm a big fan of the 72 bell. It's especially good if you like a sound that is generally warmer than the 37. I say generally because a good 72 or 72* can brighten up when pushed. I wouldn't pair it with a 43 pipe unless you are a particularly strong player. 25 or reverse 25 pipes play very well with the 72 bell.

I own and like the 43* bell. I hesitate to recommend it since it can be too bright for some players. So far it's not particularly bright for me and mine plays particularly well. Mine is paired with a 43 pipe which I'm told balances the brighter bell.

I'd preview some new horns with the different bell and pipe combinations before I laid out any cash.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

Lawler Bb · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:56 am Post subject:

43 leadpipe slots a little too loose for my taste. If I wanted something different than a 25 pipe and 37 bell, I would go 25-O and 43 or 43* bell. Still pretty focused, but a *little* broader with more color. 72 or 72* bell is too diffused and wide of a sound shape for me.
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cbtj51 · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject:

I like the 72*/43 classic combo for so many reasons (mostly versatility) but after almost 2 years on a 7*/7 combo, this is pretty hard to beat for a true chameleon playability and a really different sound spectrum than the usual Bach sound profile.
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'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
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'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
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'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
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yourbrass · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject:

The 25O pipe is good - more open than the 25 but not as much as the 43. I would think with a good 37 bell that might suit your needs.
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rockford · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:09 am Post subject:

Vincent Bach did all this experimenting with bells and pipes over 70 years ago until he settled on his standard models. If you get away from the standard models you’re probably going to come up with something that he rejected for most players. So, as boring as it may seem, I’d suggest you stick with the 37 or 43 bells and 25 pipe. If you want something just a little different consider the 37G or 43G bells and if you like the Mt. Vernon/Early Elkhart sound, get the bell in lightweight .020 configuration. Have fun.
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Bill Siegfried
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TKSop · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 am Post subject:

Just to throw a slightly different idea out...

You want something a bit different from your 25/37 combo - makes sense, there's no need to have two the same.

So, why not turn it into an MLV config (ie: get the Vindabona slide and usually a big bell) - this will give you a noticeable difference in feel and sound.
The MLV's are great horns - doesn't seem like there's any consensus over the 25 vs 43 leadpipe (and fwiw, I don't know which the ones I've played had). With the more common 72 bell they're great and the 65G bell (less common, but not off the wall) really comes to life in this combination, or atleast the one I played was magical.

Of your requests for nimble and colourful, stick a great big check in the box for an MLV on the 72 or 65G bell.

Yamahaguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992

43 standard weight bell
43 leadpipe

O00Joe · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:32 am Post subject:

Thank you all for the comments!

This venture won't be happening very soon so I have a lot of time to think about it. It does appear I should consider the 25O leadpipe with a 43 or 72 bell. My go-to guide outside of this forum is the Bach Loyalist website juat FYI.

Decisions, decisions...
_________________
1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - Laskey 60C
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C25C
2006 Bb/A Schilke Piccolo P5-4 silver - Reeves A adaptor - Stork SM SP6
Akai MPC Live II
Roland JD-Xi
Casio MT-68

cheiden · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't go for the 25-O on a 72 or 72* without trying the stock 25 pipe first. As I recall mine came with both the square and rounded tuning slide which might open it up a little if that's what you're after. For the 43 or 43* bell don't be afraid to try the 43 pipe. I'm not a particularly strong player and the bigger 43 pipe is no problem and feels fine.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

yourbrass · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject:

Andy Del · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:13 pm Post subject:

Try a standard weight 72 bell with a 25OR pipe. This is used quite a bit in Europe as big sounding orchestral horn. None of the tightness of a 37 setup.

It may work or not...

cheers

Andy
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