Looking for a mpc with less "bite"

connloyalist · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:27 am Post subject:

Hi folks,

I think I am about to embark on a "mouthpiece safari"

For the past 5 years I have been playing a JK ("Josef Klier") USA Line 1 1/2C. In the past months I have noticed that my range and endurance have decreased somewhat from what it used to be. I was never a high-blower and don't aspire to be one, but I still like to have decent range.

Before my JK 1 1/2C I played a JK 3C for a few years. Tried to go back to that: too cramped. Tried someone's Bach 1 1/2C: too big. Also tried a (elderly) Bach 3C: has possibilities. After reading up on mouthpieces again, I have come to the conclusion that what I may require is something with a little less "bite", or "alpha angle" or whatever it's called.

So the question is: Is anyone sufficiently familiar with JK mouthpieces to know how it measures up to other mouthpieces with respect to "bite"? Would switching to a Bach 3C help? (Need to go to the shop and try one I guess). How about a Laskey 65MC? (there's one on eBay now). Anything else I should consider, such as a GR66M?

Regards, Christine Derksen
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_Japle · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 4:09 am Post subject:

I've never played a JK, but if you like the 3C rim, Marcinkiewicz might have something for you.
The 300 series uses a very comfortable 3C rim with 15 different cup depths.
http://www.mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=197_213_279_280
The 310 is a little shallower than a 3C and it's only $34 + shipping.
Otherwise, the Warburton 4M, 4S or 4SV might work for you with a #8-10 backbore.
_________________
John
Cape Canaveral

JohnD · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:10 am Post subject:

Well, I don´t know what differences the bite on Jks has towards Bach, but for a while I preferred them cause I was not happy with them Bach rims. The rim of the JK Exclusive Series seems to be more a flat one compared to Bach, so this felt more comfortable with me. The USA Series of JK is supposed to provide some Bach copies, however this may turn out.

John

_londonhusker · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Oct 2002 Posts: 658

Christine,

Go to the http://www.warburton-usa.com website and poke around. They claim to have less angle of descent from perpendicular than other mouthpieces, preventing the bottoming-out issues associated with natural swelling. Anyway, read it and see what you think. I had never seen that page till today, but I've been quite happy playing Warburtons for a while now.

Dave
londonhusker

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

I am not familiar with your mouthpieces, but I have played about every other brand imaginable. As for rim comfort, while still being able to articulate and maintain flexibility, the Schilke 4 rims are the best that I've found.
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connloyalist · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:56 am Post subject:

I came across the Warburtonwebsite today. Very interesting. It must be so nice to have a place near where you can go and get good advice, have someone listen to what you sound like and where they have other mouthpieces than the standard Bach and (around here) JK USA line, which I am told are Bach copies with a different rim.

The closest Warburton deal is a 3 hour drive away from here. Forget about GR, Laskey (etc.) dealers. But maybe I would be worthwhile to go down to that place they sell Warburton and try some things. I have heard good things about Warburton.

Regards, Christine

E.D.Lewis · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject:

Christine,
I played a Bach 1 1/2C for about 3 years. I switched to it after losing my Bach 3C on an outdoor gig. I really liked the sound of the 1 1/2C but my range and endurance suffered. I've recently purchased a Yamaha 14B4GP and really like it. Smaller diameter and shallower cup help with the range, comfortable rim helps with endurance and relatively large throat keeps the sound pretty robust. That's where I'm at. I tried GR's and found their bite to be sharper than Bach's. I haven't played a Laskey piece but I hear they're pretty sharp too. Warburton does make a comfortable rim but a little wide for me. If you get a chance look in Bob Reeves. His 43 rim is very nice.

Good luck in the Hunt.
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plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3621

Christine,
I have played on a Bach 3C for decades, but lately I've been using a new CKB 3E "Acousti-Balanced" mouthpiece from Conn-Selmer and I like it. The rim is very comfortable and the cup is more shallow than a 3C. You can read about them at http://www.conn-selmer.com
You have to open the accessories page. (BTW, CKB stands for Conn-King-Benge.)

da_roadrunner · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:50 pm Post subject:

check out the GR site, fill out the questionaire, even if you don't buy a GR piece, you'll still get some pretty interesting insights in mouthpieces.

Tim80 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 1415

Christine,
The Laskey 65MC mouthpiece you referred to does have a softer bite than a newer Bach 3C. According to the Laskey site it is based on a Mt. Vernon 3C. I think it's rim isn't as sharp as other mouthpieces in the Laskey line. I like it. I've been contemplating switching to it. It is a very good all around mouthpiece. The Monette B4S is very comfy and has a softer bite to it. I assume the Kanstul version feels the same.

_________________
Tim
Comeback Player
Plant City, Florida

[ This Message was edited by: Tim80 on 2004-02-16 07:59 ]

_ConnMan · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am Post subject:

Hi Christine!

I haven't heard from you in awhile! Hope your health is doing better.

I was having problems playing my Bach 5C. It would really cut my lower lip when I played beyond an hour and a half. I ended up getting a Kanstul two piece modular mouthpiece. In the end, I settled on Kanstul's copy of a Bach 3C, BUT it doesn't feel like a real Bach to me. I don't know if Kanstul machine their mouth pieces better or what but I LOVE IT! I really like the flexibility I have that it alows me to change out cups and/or backbores really quick. The S72 backbore really opened up my CONNstellation. It sounds really nice and fat in my Mid & Low range, AND it really opened up my upper range too.

If you're interested in Kantsul's line, give Pair of Kings a call or email: http://www.PiCKMusic.net
I was just over at her place last week and she has a nice inventory of Kanstul two piece on hand. She'll gladly ship!

Best of Luck Christine!
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Playing For Him,

Kanstul 1600 "WB" w/ Kanstul two-piece B3C & S72 BB
Connstellation 38B
Kanstul 925 Flugelhorn (copper bell) w/ Kanstul two-piece BFL3C w/ 119S BB
Jupiter 416BL Pocket Trpt.
www.measureofgrace.com

connloyalist · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:05 am Post subject:

I will have to look up the Kanstul line of mouthpieces. I like the idea of a 2-piece design, since I do play 2 different trumpets regularly (and one cornet on occasion). Would the backbore happen to be a bit larger than the standard? Once in a blue moon when I play something other than a Conn, with the modern ML bore (huge, in my terms

) I do notice range is somewhat easier. I also tend to play a bit loud in those situations, because I don't have the resistance I am accustomed to. Maybe that's all I need, a slightly smaller mouthpiece with a slightly bigger backbore. Just hypothesizing.

Regards, Christine

Andy Cooper · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:44 pm Post subject:

I would agree if "bite" is the problem, the Marcinkiewicz 300 series is a good place to start. Since you are used to a larger mpc, you might try the 302 first which is fairly deep. One note on the JK mpcs - the USA line comes in different throat sizes for the 1 1/2 C. You might see if you are using the one with the large throat. That can lead to reduced endurance if it is too open for you.

musiclifeline · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:09 am Post subject:

I'll recommend GR, simply because I had similar needs and found that line to be the best solution after a 1-year safari.

Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2026

Christine,

I also like mouthpieces with a softer bite. This information is based on my past 3 years for trial and error. I played a Bach 3C for about 12 years through high school and college. Hopefully this will narrow things down for you. Here are some possiblilties.

1. Warburton. Try a 4M or 3M. You will like the soft bite of the rim. The problem with Warburtons is that the rims have different bites depending on the depth. I like the M cups sound and feel. I hate the bite on the MC and the SV is tolerable. I think the M cup would work for you.

2. GR The standard series will feel too sharp to you. I would go with a 3M or 3MS. The bite is very comfortable.

3. The Yamaha 14B4 is a great sounding and comfortable mouthpiece. It is a lot cheaper than other mouthpieces.

4. Schilkes are very comfortable. Try a 14 or 15 size.

5. Curry. I tried a 60M and it was too shallow for me. The rim and bite were very comfortable. I would try a 70M if you can play on a mouthpiece on the shallow side. This sound is strident and cuts. This mouthpiece would really depend on the type of playing you do to determine if it is appropriate.

Hope this helps.

Jon

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Yamah 6310-Z Warburton 4M, 8bb
Yamaha 631, Warburton 4FL

[ This Message was edited by: Jon Arnold on 2004-02-17 09:26 ]

PJB · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:05 am Post subject:

Christine,

After years of playing a Bach 7CW, I became dissatisfied and began a short-lived mouthpiece safari of my own. Short-lived in that I began and ended with GR. Like you, I was concerned about the bite of the rim.

I contacted Bruce Lee at Northern Brass last year, worked through the GR questionnaire, and Bruce quickly narrowed down his recommendation to the GR66***. I bought it and have not been dissappointed (the 66 rim is more on the order of the Bach 3C that I played all through college). Since then, I've added a GR66MX, primarily for C trumpet but it can also be used with Bb. In all likelihood, I'll soon be adding a GR flugel piece to my arsenal.

Far be it from me to recommend a particular GR model to you but I do recommend you contact either Bruce Lee or GR directly. Both practice top notch customer service!

While I don't have any personal experience with Curry, Warburton, Reeves, and the many other fine mouthpieces manufactured today, I'm sure they are terrific products. As for me, I'm sticking with GR.

Good luck.
_________________
Pete Blaise

1974 Benge 3X Bb
1950 Olds Super
2002 Yamaha Xeno 8445GS C
2004 Kanstul ZKF 1525 Flugel

_Don Herman · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:07 am Post subject:

I'd try a Schilke. Cheap, readily available, and (for me) much less bite than the Bach rims.
HTH - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley