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conn53victor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 1047 Location: Iowa City, IA
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: Soloing in Big Band vs. Small Combo |
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What are some things to consider when soloing in a big band compared to a combo with 1-4 horns? My very limited experience suggests that soloing in a big band is more likely to have set order and length for solos, while combos are looser than that. I was wondering about other trends (not rules). Do you approach soloing differently in large vs. small bands? _________________ Jim Calkins
IA City
"Rooty toot bop pattern. Rooty toot blues lick. Rooty toot Miles quote. Rooty toot mistake- all my solos." -Dmitri Matheny
1963 Connstellation |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2197 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: |
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in a big band you have to go cojones afuera right from the start then you have to compete with BGs from the other sections. it's not always fun to be honest. you have to play over the band for the most part.
now in a combo you are in total control of how you play _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
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brassmusician Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 273
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, big band solos usually way shorter than what you might get in a combo. I usually prefer big band trumpet solos because the player is forced to say something meaningful in a short time, usually respecting the style of the piece and main melodic ideas in an exciting way. For example Chuck Findlay (I think) on Robbie Williams version of Don't Get Around Much Anymore.
https://youtu.be/f_WIM1q5_Wg _________________ Cannonball 789RL
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Oncewasaplayer Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 974
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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In the big band, listen to the background figures and weave your lines into the gaps and openings. Make your solo a dialog with what else is going on. _________________ Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9030 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:42 am Post subject: |
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I don't think you necessarily have to go balls-to-the-wall from the get go. That includes overall volume, also. To me it's context. At the same time, you can play just as loud in a combo setting that you do in a big band. Just listen to Lee Morgan. He played very loudly.
But generally speaking, you will probably get to a point where you just have to play louder (and sometimes higher tessitura) because of denser background. The difference is that in a combo you can manipulate the volume (ideally) while in a big band, you have little control over that because of the arrangement. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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Last edited by kehaulani on Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:38 am; edited 2 times in total |
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mm55 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1412
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:46 am Post subject: |
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With a big band solo, it's very important that you know the arrangement of all the background parts behind the solo. Use that knowledge. Play a solo that is complemented by the accompaniment. _________________ '75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
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DustinB New Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2015 Posts: 5 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Another factor to consider is, unless it is an open section, there is less room for a "conversation" with the rhythm section during your solo in a big band, especially if backgrounds come in. It's often helpful to vary practice sessions where you really develop an idea over a number of choruses and other times work on nailing two bar phrasing outlying the harmony as written. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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The differences are primarily (1) you're competing with more volume in a big band and (2) big band is more about the ensemble and less about the solos.
The more that is written on the page the less artistic license there is throughout the song. So, in big band the main thing is the ensemble with solos filling in but in combo the main thing is the solos with the melody as a reference point.
I used to love playing in a big band but as my improvisation skills have advanced I much prefer combo. Big band is too loud and too constrained and the solos are generally too short and in too much competition with the ensemble. Artistically the solo opportunities in combo are much greater than in big band. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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To answer your question - yes solos with a big band generally (almost always) have a set duration due from my experience you are playing written music and not watching the soloist. On rare occasions with a really tight band with a leader I have seen an extra x# bars added by signal, but that was rare. Also the solo must go over/with the background song being played by the other 16 or so people. And that’s so common it’s almost a rule
Rod |
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oljackboy Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2008 Posts: 290
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:59 am Post subject: |
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To me, the main difference is in the flexibility of the group. By nature, a big band must be fairly rigid, especially when the ensemble is involved. A small group can do a lot more with dynamics and time. Sometimes my small group can play so softly that I can almost whisper and still be heard. I have way more license with the time in small group settings than I do with a big band.
Both are fun, but I really prefer the freedom of the small group. |
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veum Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 151 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Soloing in a larger ensemble setting where solos are often shorter can be a great aid in learning how to play concisely. Similarly, if a solo section is bookended by strong ensemble material a soloist may be guided in his/her selection of ideas for the solo. Is the solo a bridge of some kind between contrasting sections? If so, how can the soloist bridge that gap? If the ensemble material on either side is similar does the soloist want to play contrasting material? Stay in the same vein? Just some added variables...............
Bill Simenson
billsimenson.com |
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Dorazio41 New Member
Joined: 22 May 2018 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:23 am Post subject: |
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When playing in a big band, especially contemporary charts, solos are always extended, in big band jazz performance,so it can be just as challenging as blowing in a jazz quintet situation! In witch i do.I love playing smaller groups, gives you a chance to stretch out, lyrically & rhythmical, |
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Dorazio41 New Member
Joined: 22 May 2018 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:35 am Post subject: |
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When playing in a big band, especially contemporary charts, solos are always extended, in big band jazz performance,so it can be just as challenging as blowing in a jazz quintet situation! In witch i do.I love playing smaller groups, gives you a chance to stretch out, lyrically & rhythmical, |
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Dorazio41 New Member
Joined: 22 May 2018 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:40 am Post subject: BIG BAND PLAYING VERSES SMALL BAND |
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When playing in a big band, especially contemporary charts, solos are always extended, in big band jazz performance,so it can be just as challenging as blowing in a jazz quintet situation! In witch i do.I love playing smaller groups, gives you a chance to stretch out, lyrically & rhythmical! |
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