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andersonengineering Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 25
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:47 pm Post subject: Looking for a new horn and quick bio (new guy here) |
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Hi guys! First post here, if I am in the wrong spot or do anything wrong, let me know! apologies inadvance.
Quick bio on me, I have been a professional guitarist for 15 years, and enjoy playing blues with influences of jazz and country. I am also a drummer, and am currently working on getting acquainted with a local orchestra that plays local events. I should be starting with them on a regular basis soon. I was in band in school, playing trumpet through ninth grade and percussion, then redirected focus to guitar and left.
I have decided to pick up the trumpet again, its been a looong time. I am starting up fresh now partially influenced by an old friend giving me his 1975 King Silver Flair. I have been doing excersises for a few weeks now, now going through books an old instructor wrote.
I am looking for book recommendations if you have something that is exceptional and would benefit a second-time-a-rounder.
Sorry to be long winded.
Soooo. I have a 1975 King Silver Flair with a 3C UMI silver plated mouthpiece. I picked up a 7C UMI silver plated matching mouthpiece that I sniped for $10 that will be here on Saturday. I also have a mute.
I am looking for a trumpet or maybe coronet that would be a second horn.
I am totally good with something that used, in fact I actually would prefer used as money goes farther. As far as brands or prices go; I have no clue.
I want to keep it under or around $600. I have no idea what to look for.
If i did something wrong or violated any rule or courtesy, please let me know.
Thanks and cheers! |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for a new horn and quick bio (new guy here) |
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andersonengineering wrote: | Soooo. I have a 1975 King Silver Flair with a 3C UMI silver plated mouthpiece. I picked up a 7C UMI silver plated matching mouthpiece that I sniped for $10 that will be here on Saturday. I also have a mute.
I am looking for a trumpet or maybe coronet that would be a second horn.
Thanks and cheers! |
Your Flair should be fine for now. Even though the horn is a King, I personally wouldn’t wear a coronet (a crown without arches).
I suggest waiting on getting a cornet. I don’t play in brass bands, which is where you get the most call for cornets, so I personally have no use for a cornet. A flugelhorn would be my first choice. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2331 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Spend your money on lessons, not gear. If the King is in working order, it will do the job until you know more and have defined preferences when/if you replace it.
I'm not familiar with UMI mouthpieces, but either one from description sounds fine, pick the one that seems to feel and work better, and put the other one away. A qualified teacher may put you on something else after listening to you.
Lessons, practice (daily), repeat ad nausium.....
+1, Flugelhorn a better choice for the next instrument, especially if you're into the jazz scene. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:33 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: |
Lessons, practice (daily), repeat ad nausium.....
. |
+1!!! _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9032 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:46 am Post subject: |
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andersonengineering, you may not be familiar with the terminology. When LittleRusty says brass band, he means a British Brass Band style, which has a different instrumentation than average American bands.
And to reinforce, I also think, as long as the King is in good working order, your money is better spent on a good teacher. Even if you can only afford the $600.00, that will get you, lesson-wise, going in the right direction. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: |
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The Silver Flair is a great horn. It's probably worth having it evaluated by a good pro shop (or a pro teacher) to make sure it's in good working order.
For my second time around I really liked the books by Allen Vizzutti.
I do agree that even taking a few lessons is more valuable than a new horn. Getting a good daily routine and the sound of a pro player in your head is the fastest way to get out of the frustrating part of trumpet playing and into the fun part. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Add another vote for finding a teacher who plays the trumpet to guide you. I went back after many, many years, and took weekly lessons which made a huge difference - just a half hour a week.
I also recommend the Vizzutti books. His exercises will keep you on your toes!! _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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andersonengineering Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 25
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for a new horn and quick bio (new guy here) |
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LittleRusty
Ok, apologies for the the spelling error- you actually did make me laugh out loud.
zaferis
Thanks, the trumpet is a 100% good to go, I had a tech look it over, and he saw no issues.
i have the opportunity to get some lessons from my wife's old band teacher, as she was heavily involved in band over a decade ago. Trumpet is his main instrument, and he is a great player, and a nice guy.
Thank you for the comment on staying on one mouthpiece, I read about that earlier this morning, you just reinforced it. I mainly picked up the second because it matched, and was cheap. Is one size or the other better for beginners.
kehaulani
Thanks for answering, and i didn't know the British reference, that solved future confusion. i will have some instruction. Regarding the budget, it is flexible, I just saw a lot of options in that price range on reverb (dot com). To be honest, I don't really know what to look for.
cheiden
Thanks for you post, the trumpet has had a clean bill of health and it was looked over. I will check out those books, thanks. I will have some instruction.
veery715
thanks for the book recommendation, and I will have instruction.
_________
Thanks for every response. i tried to get back to everybody directly, that is why some things are repeated several times.
_________
off of curiosity if i were to spend $600 on a used horn (reverb dot com), what would i look for? if that is a bad budget, what is a budget where you get better bang for your buck?
I am not going to say that money isn't an issue because we all like money, but the money for lessons is not affecting the $600 for a horn. PART of the reason. I just want to pick up another horn, partially because i don't want to haul the king around, and partially just because i want another horn...lol.
:cheers: |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Can you tell us how you would want another horn to be different from the King? Once you tell us that we can offer suggestions. Vintage trumpets sold in your price range by me over the past year: Callet Jazz (large bore), Benge Claude Gordon, Getzen Severinsen. The last two were similar in many ways from a playing point of view, the Callet much different. I also sold an Olds Mendez in that range - it was in a class by itself.
Browse the Marketplace here to get some ideas.
By the way, there isn't really such a thing as a "matching" mouthpiece. Sure the taper on pieces from the same maker will "match", but there are standard tapers and mouthpieces from many different companies will fit. Sticking with the 3C is a very good idea though, until you get professional in-person guidance. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I can't name a different horn that you're likely to score for around $600. A better Bb used will most likely set you back a grand or more.
If you could be convinced to hang with the Silver Flair for your Bb, for variety you might consider scoring a flugelhorn. Dillon sells a well-reviewed one new for under $500. If you like cornets you could probably pick up a used Olds Ambassador for just a few hundred, sometimes less. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | I can't name a different horn that you're likely to score for around $600. A better Bb used will most likely set you back a grand or more.
If you could be convinced to hang with the Silver Flair for your Bb, for variety you might consider scoring a flugelhorn. Dillon sells a well-reviewed one new for under $500. If you like cornets you could probably pick up a used Olds Ambassador for just a few hundred, sometimes less. |
I think Trent at Austin Custom Brass still sells his doubler flugel which has gotten some nice comments on here. |
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andersonengineering Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 25
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:13 am Post subject: |
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veery715 wrote: | Can you tell us how you would want another horn to be different from the King? Once you tell us that we can offer suggestions. Vintage trumpets sold in your price range by me over the past year: Callet Jazz (large bore), Benge Claude Gordon, Getzen Severinsen. The last two were similar in many ways from a playing point of view, the Callet much different. I also sold an Olds Mendez in that range - it was in a class by itself.
Browse the Marketplace here to get some ideas.
By the way, there isn't really such a thing as a "matching" mouthpiece. Sure the taper on pieces from the same maker will "match", but there are standard tapers and mouthpieces from many different companies will fit. Sticking with the 3C is a very good idea though, until you get professional in-person guidance. |
thanks for your response.
i am not sure what i don't like with the king, i love it... lol.
i just like having different things around for inspiration. that may sound odd, i guess, but i also have 36 electric guitars. Here is how i can best explain it. I am doing some recording and get stuck on a lead, sometimes i will grab a different guitar and it will jump out. does that make sense at all? lol. thats how it feels to me anyways.'
i would want something rather different from the king if possible and of good quality at my budget.
i think maybe i meant to say standard issue for that horn at the time. i am sticking with the 3C
i will look into dillon, but the olds are intriguing. could you link me to a good online retailer for trumpets that sells the dillon.
what is the general opinion of yamaha?
also one more question, whyis the cornet so unpopular?
as far as playing is going, i am getting a little better every day (or would like to think) lol.
____________________--
thoughts? https://reverb.com/item/10524907-olds-cornet-trumpet-1968 |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:22 am Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | cheiden wrote: | I can't name a different horn that you're likely to score for around $600. A better Bb used will most likely set you back a grand or more.
If you could be convinced to hang with the Silver Flair for your Bb, for variety you might consider scoring a flugelhorn. Dillon sells a well-reviewed one new for under $500. If you like cornets you could probably pick up a used Olds Ambassador for just a few hundred, sometimes less. |
I think Trent at Austin Custom Brass still sells his doubler flugel which has gotten some nice comments on here. |
A vote here for Trent’s flugel, NICE horn.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: |
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andersonengineering wrote: | i will look into dillon, but the olds are intriguing. could you link me to a good online retailer for trumpets that sells the dillon.
what is the general opinion of yamaha?
also one more question, whyis the cornet so unpopular? |
Dillon and Trent Austin are their own stores
https://www.dillonmusic.com/
http://austincustombrass.com/
The both sell direct and both have great reputations and lots of fans.
Yamaha is a first-rate brass maker. Hard to go wrong.
Cornet in the US is often considered old-timey and aren't used in many ensembles though some soloists, Dixieland and British-style brass bands continue to use them. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Stay with that Silver Flair as long as your friend will let you keep it. I think you'll have better results with that 3C mouthpiece (assuming it is fairly similar to a Bach 3C). 7C mouthpieces are quite deep and have narrow rims that most find to be uncomfortable if they practice a lot. The 3C is a bit shallower and has a wider, more comfortable rim.
Have fun with that trumpet!
Cheers,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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andersonengineering Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 25
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:43 am Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | Stay with that Silver Flair as long as your friend will let you keep it. I think you'll have better results with that 3C mouthpiece (assuming it is fairly similar to a Bach 3C). 7C mouthpieces are quite deep and have narrow rims that most find to be uncomforta.ble if they practice a lot. The 3C is a bit shallower and has a wider, more comfortable rim.
Have fun with that trumpet!
Cheers,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested |
the silver flair is mine, and believe me its not going anywhere.
i am staying with the 3C as it feels more comforatble.
thanks all of you for the kind advice! |
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plp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 7023 Location: South Alabama
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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There is nothing wrong with collecting trumpets, musical instruments in general, etc., but doubt you would find anything that will make any difference for the first 5 years of your development over the Silver Flair.
That is a great trumpet, if it is in good working order. Find a local music store with a tech who can clean it and if necessary, replace felts, corks, springs if needed.
Fortunately, compared to drums or guitar, there are far few moving parts and less that can go wrong.
A 3C, while not the right mouthpiece for me, serves millions of others just fine, once again, for the first 5 years any mouthpiece will be fine.
Lessons should be your main focus as far as expenditure, then take what you have learned to the woodshed and work it out.
So yeah, pretty much no different than guitar or drums. _________________ Since all other motives—fame, money, power, even honor—are thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it.” Wayne Booth |
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Tritone Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2013 Posts: 148
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Just to reiterate what others have said here, a 1975 King Silver Flair in good mechanical condition is a GREAT horn.
It's not an intermediate horn, or a student horn, or any sort of a second-tier axe. These particular horns aren't made any more, but they were (are) great for a variety of applications -- including lead.
Beware that in following years, horns of the same name were produced but they are much different and much less capable.
If it's the case that you just want another horn, many (all?) of us would understand. But you have a fine trumpet right there. |
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andersonengineering Regular Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2018 Posts: 25
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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NEW CONTENT!
i hope it is ok if i am keeping this thread open, if not, kindly let meknow.
i cleaned the trumpet REALLY well, followed procedure, but now my first valve is much slower.i did not submerge it, just cleaned the bottom part (for lack of a better term) where the ports (again for lack of a better term) were and oiled like normal.
the rest of the trumpet was bathed.
could i have damaged something? i didn't drop the valve or anything or ding it on anything, it is requiring valve oil every hour or so of play. bad oil? its Blessing brand if that matters?
on a more cheerful note, i am progressing well, i am under the care of a nice gentlemen guiding me on my studies. unfortunately i can get 15 minutes out of him a week, but at least i am not picking up bad habits according to him. i am able to get the high G effortlessly, tonguing is good for the most part, not so much the soft. BUT i am progressing.
i am not really looking for a new horn anymore happy where i am as long as the slow valve gets figured out.
my next horn will be a flugel horn though for sure. down the road. |
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Harry Hilgers Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2015 Posts: 637
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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cbtj51 wrote: | zaferis wrote: |
Lessons, practice (daily), repeat ad nausium.....
. |
+1!!! |
+1 |
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