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trumpetdiva1
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Joined: 22 May 2002
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Location: Indiana
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 Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| If someone with very little music experience asked you, “what is the difference between the cornet and flugelhorn” how would you respond? Would you describe the distinction between the size of the bell or talk about the sound? |
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jamie
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Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| well i would say that the flugel has a realy mellow and dark sound. the trumpet is bright and the cornet is in the middle. |
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_Don Herman
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Jamie answer is good! You could also put the trumpet (picc, even) at one end of the sound types and trombone (or tuba) at the other...
If the person was an engineer (guilty as charged!), you could tell him/her/it that a cornet is roughly 2/3 conical tubing and the flugelhorn virtually 100%, giving it a darker sound. The trumpet is roughly 1/3 conical, the rest cylindrical (straight tubes).
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley |
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OldKid
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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On 2003-10-25 22:16, Don Herman wrote:
Jamie answer is good! You could also put the trumpet (picc, even) at one end of the sound types and trombone (or tuba) at the other...
If the person was an engineer (guilty as charged!), you could tell him/her/it that a cornet is roughly 2/3 conical tubing and the flugelhorn virtually 100%, giving it a darker sound. The trumpet is roughly 1/3 conical, the rest cylindrical (straight tubes).
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Are the percentages any different (conical tubing) between a long bell and a short bell cornet?
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Bach 181 Strad Cornet B1.5B
YAMAHA Xeno 16C4 GP
Getzen 3850 Cornet YAM 16E
King (early 50's) Super 20 B1.5C
Pocket Max B1.5C
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Nonsense Eliminator
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Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually, those percentages don't really hold any longer, at least for piston trumpets. Both a modern trumpet and a modern cornet are pretty much conical everywhere except through the tuning slide and valve section. (My cornet has a conical tuning slide, i.e. the two branches are different bores, but some trumpets have that as well.) A "true" trumpet wouldn't have a tapered leadpipe. As for a long bell cornet vs. a shepherd's crook, the proportions should remain more or less the same. |
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trumpetmike
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Sound wise I think it is safe to say that the flugel is traditionally a darker sound than a cornet or (even more) a trumpet.
Saying that, some people can get a very mellow sound from a trumpet and others can make the flugel very bright.
But it is a good place to start our generalisations. |
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OldKid
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:56 am Post subject: |
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From my experience a Flugel is a lot darker than a trumpet especially if the Flugel is using a true Flugel mp. I think the Flugel and Short cornet with appropriate mps are very simular in tone. jmho
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Bach 181 Strad Cornet B1.5B
YAMAHA Xeno 16C4 GP
Getzen 3850 Cornet YAM 16E
King (early 50's) Super 20 B1.5C
Pocket Max B1.5C
Arban's |
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dstpt
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Nonsense Eliminator wrote: | | Actually, those percentages don't really hold any longer, at least for piston trumpets. Both a modern trumpet and a modern cornet are pretty much conical everywhere except through the tuning slide and valve section. (My cornet has a conical tuning slide, i.e. the two branches are different bores, but some trumpets have that as well.) A "true" trumpet wouldn't have a tapered leadpipe. As for a long bell cornet vs. a shepherd's crook, the proportions should remain more or less the same. |
I know this is an ancient TH thread from 2003, but it has come up today in a text discussion with a former college student now freelancing (I'll call “Todd”). He pointed me to Robb Stewart's lengthy/thorough/insightful essay from his website on this subject: <https://www.robbstewart.com/difference-between-trumpet-and-cornet/>. Todd proposes that perhaps the "wrap" of the cornet would contribute to the sound differences, just as Mr. Stewart mentions the bell design. I believe there may be some validity to his hypothesis. (By the way, this is a shift from the original thread, comparing cornet to flugelhorn, to comparing trumpet to cornet, but rather than start a new thread, it seemed easier to keep this information flow together in the same thread.)
Have any of you come across studies dealing with this? This is where I'm going with the topic: Todd has been using cornet frequently in his freelancing (that is, those gigs where he is the only trumpet/cornet player). He finds it is easier to do the job and seems to work better soundwise. He uses various mouthpieces, so he can attain the sound he wants in these settings (dark to fairly bright). I've heard him in some of these, and it sounds very much like a trumpet, and I would be hard pressed to distinguish the difference if I did not already know. I am pretty certain that most of us would agree that a trumpet in general would be able to project more/better/easier than a cornet (using the same mouthpiece). I’m sure there’d be exceptions. Thoughts? (Here we go….) |
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TKSop
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| dstpt wrote: | | Nonsense Eliminator wrote: | | Actually, those percentages don't really hold any longer, at least for piston trumpets. Both a modern trumpet and a modern cornet are pretty much conical everywhere except through the tuning slide and valve section. (My cornet has a conical tuning slide, i.e. the two branches are different bores, but some trumpets have that as well.) A "true" trumpet wouldn't have a tapered leadpipe. As for a long bell cornet vs. a shepherd's crook, the proportions should remain more or less the same. |
I know this is an ancient TH thread from 2003, but it has come up today in a text discussion with a former college student now freelancing (I'll call “Todd”). He pointed me to Robb Stewart's lengthy/thorough/insightful essay from his website on this subject: <https://www.robbstewart.com/difference-between-trumpet-and-cornet/>. Todd proposes that perhaps the "wrap" of the cornet would contribute to the sound differences, just as Mr. Stewart mentions the bell design. I believe there may be some validity to his hypothesis. (By the way, this is a shift from the original thread, comparing cornet to flugelhorn, to comparing trumpet to cornet, but rather than start a new thread, it seemed easier to keep this information flow together in the same thread.)
Have any of you come across studies dealing with this? This is where I'm going with the topic: Todd has been using cornet frequently in his freelancing (that is, those gigs where he is the only trumpet/cornet player). He finds it is easier to do the job and seems to work better soundwise. He uses various mouthpieces, so he can attain the sound he wants in these settings (dark to fairly bright). I've heard him in some of these, and it sounds very much like a trumpet, and I would be hard pressed to distinguish the difference if I did not already know. I am pretty certain that most of us would agree that a trumpet in general would be able to project more/better/easier than a cornet (using the same mouthpiece). I’m sure there’d be exceptions. Thoughts? (Here we go….) |
Largely the difference ends up coming down to mindset and mouthpieces.
Approach a cornet like a trumpet and with a trumpetty mouthpiece and you'll get results that would pass for a trumpet... equally, throw in a really deep mouthpiece and (believing it'll work, since most do) you'll get something that works but sounds very very different indeed.
I think the wrap (especially in how much closer the bulk of the metalwork is to the player) probably contributes to this almost chameleon-like ability to be several different things at a whim - you get a slightly better handle on what your audience might be hearing (still not perfect by any means) and that gives the ability to interact with it enough to make it convincing (moreso than a trumpet with a trumpet-flugel hybrid mouthpiece, IMHO). |
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dstpt
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Really where I'm headed with this: Who among you have substituted cornet for trumpet and found it to be helpful to do so, and in what way/setting? I'm wondering if using a cornet in some settings where we'd normally use trumpet, might yield a similar tonal result but with advantages. |
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dstpt
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bunny
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: |
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This article is mentioned above:
https://www.robbstewart.com/difference-between-trumpet-and-cornet
As there are also several other articles and statements regarding the amount of conical and cylindrical tubing in modern valve trumpets and cornets referenced, I urge everyone interested to take a few minutes to read this! |
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