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amarokmclion Regular Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:42 pm Post subject: Advantages of bigger mouthpiece |
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I'm playing with a Bach 3C and while a found it comfortable most of the times, sometimes I feel it a little too small. So I'm wondering what are the advantages of using a bigger mouthpiece. |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Read Jens' mouthpiece rant, you'll find it on youtube and written on the forum somewhere...
At what times/situations are you finding the 3c a bit small?
I'd be very hesitant to go any bigger than a 3c without very good reason - if nothing else, I'd want to be sure there's no underlying technique issues underpinning that feeling that it's too small (if there is, you could potentially go bigger, bigger, bigger again and have it keep cropping up).
Do you take lessons at all?
If so, what does your teacher say? |
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Type3B Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2016 Posts: 108 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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This is well-traveled ground. Uan Rasey played a huge mouthpiece, Bill Chase played a tiny one. Find what works for you in what you play and the way you want to sound. Forget what anyone else plays, and forget specifications. _________________ 2006 Buick Lucerne |
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amarokmclion Regular Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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TKSop wrote: | Read Jens' mouthpiece rant, you'll find it on youtube and written on the forum somewhere...
At what times/situations are you finding the 3c a bit small?
I'd be very hesitant to go any bigger than a 3c without very good reason - if nothing else, I'd want to be sure there's no underlying technique issues underpinning that feeling that it's too small (if there is, you could potentially go bigger, bigger, bigger again and have it keep cropping up).
Do you take lessons at all?
If so, what does your teacher say? |
Mainly below the staff I feel I'd like something a little bigger to accommodate my lips.
I take lessons but unlucky not in regular manner. I was planning on talking about this to my teacher in our next lesson. |
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brassmusician Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 273
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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You should try a few different 3C's. The rim shape can make a big difference to how small or big it feels. I am playing a Carol 3C (stock mouthpiece that came with a new horn) which has a pretty narrow rim and fairly deep cup...it is working brilliantly for me. Having moved from smaller pieces to this I finally have day to day consistency in response - my lips don't feel cramped any more, they execute easily and my flexibility is great. I won't use it for lead but it was fine for the 2nd book in a 3 hour big band gig. I have a Reeves 3C which also has a roundish narrow rim but is shallower - will use this for lead parts.
If you are on a Bach 3C you may find the sharpish rim a bit constricting - there are plenty of different 3C's to try - Trent Austin's models could be worth a look, also the Reeves 3C. _________________ Cannonball 789RL
Yamaha 635ST
Yamaha 16C4
Wick 2BFL |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Reeves 43C is a "bigger" 3C and much more efficient.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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jrd19580 Regular Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2016 Posts: 56 Location: Racine, Wisconsin
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Type3B is right on the money.
Find what works for you and the horn you are playing and do that by finding a trained professional to help you get fitted for the right piece for the horn you have, and the sound you are looking for.
You can go broke buying mouthpieces searching for the perfect piece DAMHIKT. Also, as others have stated it could just be a matter of bad technique that could be corrected.
I have had two guys that have really helped me with this, Charlie Melk when he was still here in the Milwaukee area, and my teacher and trained mouthpiece fitter who goes by trptdave on the forum. I have heard a lot of people play and trptdave could hang with most of them, his sound is incredible, so I trust his judgment! Find someone like that in your area.
hth,
John _________________ Yamaha 8310Z
Yamaha 731 Flugelhorn
Yamaha YCR-2330 Cornet |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:32 am Post subject: |
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I can't be sure what it is that you are experiencing but my gripe with the 3C wasn't that I actually thought it was too small but that, particularly in the lower register, I found the tone lacking. The Bach 1.5C had a much more satisfying depth of sound to my ears but I couldn't acclimate to the rime size/shape. When I couldn't find a piece with both a good feel and satisfying sound, I had one made. See my signature.
And FWIW, the modern 3C is a fairly large piece already. If you have an older 3C it may be noticeably smaller. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: |
And FWIW, the modern 3C is a fairly large piece already. If you have an older 3C it may be noticeably smaller. |
Or, if it's a Mt Vernon or a no-dot Corp, it'll probably be noticeably larger. |
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mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3776 Location: AL
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Here's a very interesting article I ran across this weekend:
https://trumpetpla.net/2017/02/22/oneormore/ _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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trombino Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 366 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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The advantage? Bigger targets. With mouthpieces, it seems with every advantage other disadvantages can occur. Proceed with caution. |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1102 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
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TKSop wrote: | cheiden wrote: |
And FWIW, the modern 3C is a fairly large piece already. If you have an older 3C it may be noticeably smaller. |
Or, if it's a Mt Vernon or a no-dot Corp, it'll probably be noticeably larger. |
I'll second that. I have a no-dot Corp 3C that feels like a 1-1/2C, but has the cup profile of Corp (no dot) 1-1/4C though shallower. It basically sounds like a sort of commercial 1-1/4C, if there were such a thing. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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JeffM729 Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 442 Location: Parrish, FL
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:20 am Post subject: |
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If you are comfortable with the 3C rim and diameter. Take a look at Mark Curry's 3BC. It's a 3C rim with a deeper Bach type B cup. His mouthpieces are reasonably priced and well made. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: |
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JeffM729 wrote: | If you are comfortable with the 3C rim and diameter. Take a look at Mark Curry's 3BC. It's a 3C rim with a deeper Bach type B cup. His mouthpieces are reasonably priced and well made. |
In my experience the stock Curry 3C. already feels and sounds bigger than the typical Bach 3C. I might be playing one now if it didn't feel too big for me. The 3BC I played only briefly but it may be a step too far for general playing for some players. Just my 2 cents. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Cheiden is correct. A Curry 3BC takes a constant, strong air flow or you will have no upper register in a very short time.
It is very open.
R. Tomasek |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9372 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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I played a '70s Bach 3C for years and was never really satisfied with my sound on it. Too bright, and even though the cup felt wide enough, it was too shallow. I tried a Bach 3B and it had a really nice sound but sucked the life out of me in short order. After speaking to Mark Curry, I bought a Curry 3C. and things were instantly familiar, but much better - the tone was more rich and the rim was more comfortable, which also helped endurance. I played a 5-night show run with it the day after receiving it in the mail. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3776 Location: AL
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:37 am Post subject: |
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JeffM729 wrote: |
In my experience the stock Curry 3C. already feels and sounds bigger than the typical Bach 3C. I might be playing one now if it didn't feel too big for me. The 3BC I played only briefly but it may be a step too far for general playing for some players. Just my 2 cents. |
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. The majority of my playing in school was on a large letter 3C and then in college I found a small letter 3C I really liked. The Curry 3C. felt bigger than either of those. If I were going with a Curry now, I would have to downsize to a 5C. _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Off topic slightly, but IMO, there are so many variables (physical facial structure, playing habits, differing horns, etc.) that recommending specific mouthpiece sizes to anyone is near impossible. Sure, there are some basic constants, like GENERALLY cup depth, diameter, throat size and alpha angle will produce similar results for different people, but what works very well for one person might be nearly unplayable for another. But I suppose that’s a “duh!”😎
That being said, we’re all going to continue discussions about mouthpieces, nothing wrong with that. I’m just not sure if conclusions can be drawn.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: |
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mafields627 wrote: | JeffM729 wrote: |
In my experience the stock Curry 3C. already feels and sounds bigger than the typical Bach 3C. I might be playing one now if it didn't feel too big for me. The 3BC I played only briefly but it may be a step too far for general playing for some players. Just my 2 cents. |
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. The majority of my playing in school was on a large letter 3C and then in college I found a small letter 3C I really liked. The Curry 3C. felt bigger than either of those. If I were going with a Curry now, I would have to downsize to a 5C. |
I asked Curry about that option and was informed that the Curry 5C isn't just a smaller version of the Curry 3C. But that the Curry 5C rim more resembles the Bach 5C rim which is a very different shape. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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PieterS Regular Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2006 Posts: 57 Location: the Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting indeed: "Large mouthpieces are really good at hiding poor technique".
Stupid generalisation. How does that sound, a player with poor technique on a large mouthpiece? Like a better player? No mouthpiece will give you anything you don't have, certainly not technique. _________________ Bb: van Laar B4 / Bach 1.25C 26 & Reeves 43.5C
C: Bach Stradivarius 239 CL / Bach 1.25C 24/24 & Bach 1B |
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