Benge trumpet with 6 Bell "Custom Built by E-BENGE"

irfast · New Member Joined: 19 May 2002 Posts: 6

i was looking on ebay and found this beautiful benge. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3703651209&category=16214

I was wondering what the 6 on the bell means (is it the same as a 6x benge?) and if the sound produced would be significantly different, or if it would take a LOT more lung power. I am currently in 10th grade, in the High School Symphonic Band, and i play a Yamaha 2335 (i think) student trumpet from 6th grade. Every other trumpet in the Band has a Bach Stradivarius except me and the other sophmore. Will this trumpet sound very different than a Strad? Also, I'm lead trumpet in the Jazz Band, and I would just like to know if this trumpet would be a good buy. If there are decent alternatives I will look at them, but I am looking for a 1st valve trigger, and a silver trumpet to match the rest of the band. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Benge Loyalist · Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:42 pm Post subject:

The Benge 6 represents a large bore (.468) trumpet. It is the same as a Benge 6x.

However, the one on eBay is made by UMI, not by Benge. UMI purchased the right to use the Benge name on one if its trumpet lines several years ago. The Benge trumpet has not been the same since.

It is a decent horn, but it does not enjoy the same good reputation as Benge trumpets made in either Chicago or Burbank. Early Los Angeles horns are considered, by some, to be universally good as well.

I would not recommend a large bore trumpet to a high school player unless the player has demonstrated a genuine need for it.

As for the Bachs in your band, I'd bet that not one purchased the horn based on anything actually known about it. Rather, it was probably a band director recommendation. They're not bad, but, as I am the Benge Loyalist, there are others who will more readily leap to its defense.

_________________
Benge Loyalist (aka UsedBits) owns the following instruments:
Benge Bb, 5x, ml, #8162 (Burbank 1969), gold plated
Benge C, 2x+, mlp, #7481 (Burbank 1968), silver plated
Benge D/Eb, ml, #6579 (Burbank 1965), raw brass
Stomvi piccolo, m1

[ This Message was edited by: Benge Loyalist on 2004-02-18 21:42 ]

cuivre · Regular Member Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 15

Actually, this horn was manufactured in Anaheim by Zig Kanstul, before the U.M.I. takeover. The Anaheim horns say "E. Benge, Los Angeles" on the bell, and the horns made in Ohio by U.M.I. say "Benge, USA". The Brass Bow has a good resource for dating Benges:
http://www.thebrassbow.com/Serial.html
There is nothing wrong with the way this horn was made; if it wasn't mistreated it should be as good as any of the Anaheim Benges, which were much, much better trumpets than the junk that came out of Ohio. I agree, however, that a large bore trumpet might be a catastrophic shock to a high school player who is used to a Yamaha 2335.

[ This Message was edited by: cuivre on 2004-02-19 03:28 ]

cuivre · Regular Member Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 15

Why is a first valve slide trigger important to you? There are a number of medium large and medium large-plus bore Benges on Ebay right now that seem to be going at a good price, that are in silverplate, but they don't have triggers (for example http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3704017483&category=16214).

[ This Message was edited by: cuivre on 2004-02-19 03:28 ]

irfast · New Member Joined: 19 May 2002 Posts: 6

I've been looking through the forums, and searching through ebay, and there are apparently quite a few really nice pro horns that at least a few people love. The first valve trigger isnt much of an issue anymore for me, but a ML bore is (.459-.460), but i dont know a whole lot about bell sizes, and the effects of a larger/smaller bell. Theres a nice ZeuS Guarnerius Bb Trumpet on ebay, I cant see a single blemish, ding, dent or anything like that on the entire instrument. http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3704389968&category=16214 I would like to know what a resonable price for such an instrument would be, and how that instrument would compare to a Bach. I've read around and have hear that it's "The Most Dangerous Trumpet in the World! A real BACH KILLER! design based on the Bach Stradivarius Mt. Vernon Trumpet Trumpets" How true is this? Also, on a lesser note, is a Getzen Eterna 700 with silver finish a good deal for $650? Also, what about King Silver Flares (newer), or King Liberty trumpets (1954)? good value? good trumpet? I know this is a lot of questions, but I need to be more educated about trumpets since my instructor would just say "go out and buy a Bach Strad at the music shop"

irfast · New Member Joined: 19 May 2002 Posts: 6

I just got a reply from someone else that had a benge, and its a 3x, ML Bore, comes with a lot of mouthpieces (about 8 ) and has a serial number that places it at 1981 according to thebrassbow. 1981 was the same year the UMI purchased Benge, so would the quality of this trumpet be lower the same year that it was purchased by UMI, or did that happen gradually? Also, serial number is 39758 if you would like to double check the year. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3704339430

[ This Message was edited by: irfast on 2004-02-19 17:05 ]

cuivre · Regular Member Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 15

Don't get too carried away by the Zeus hype. The Guarnerius is a reasonable horn, with a 25 leadpipe and a 37 bell just like the standard Bach Strad; I find it a little tight, and I don't like it as much as the Bach. If that Zeus stays low in the bidding it could be a good buy. I don't have any experience with the Getzens or the Kings. The B&S Challenger is said to be an excellent value, but you would also probably do very well with a used pre-UMI Benge, or a Bach. Another great value, if you can find one, is a used F. Besson that was made by Kanstul (the new ones are made in India now). There's one on Ebay but the starting bid is a little high for that horn. In fact, anything by Kanstul, used or otherwise, is worth considering, and their lower-end horns are quite good and are quite inexpensive as well (the Zeus is made by Kanstul, and is comparable to the CCT900, which costs less than $1000 new).

Trptbenge · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:43 am Post subject:

Hi,

Let me give you a little more background on Benges. I have owned 14 over the past 8 years. I wish Patrick Olguin's original Benge Nut page was still up. Jim Donaldson has created one that is very informative. Here is it's address: http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Benge.html

To clear up any more confusion about the serial numbers on the Benges I'll try to remember Patricks information from his site and combine it with my experience. I have owned Benges made in Los Angeles (Anaheim - at the current location of the Kanstul factory) with 43,000 serial number range on them. I not seen any numbers that went above that on the original Benge serial numbers. Additionally, before they moved the operation to East Lake Ohio there were several horns made in LA with the UMI numbers and Benge USA name on the bell. Patrick, who had done in depth research on this owned one of those horns and I have played and owned one of the horns as well. It played very well.

When UMI moved the factory shortly there after they told Zig that they did not want any of the Mandrels or other tooling because they had their own. So, Zig bought the equipment and then (in a partnership with Donald Benge) went on to create the Burbank line of trumpets - which were Benges under a different name and then eventually the Chicago Model under the Kanstul line. So, when UMI moved the Benge production to Eastlake the horns were very different - okay they sucked - then the Chicago, Burbank or LA Benges.

Both horns you are looking at are LA Benges. However, the #6 is a large bore horn that not only plays big it also has a tubby unfocused sound. At least to me. The 3X has always been the most popular model bacause of its versatility. It is at home in jazz, big band and in concert band. The 3X MLP was the second most popular model. it had a slightly larger bore (.464 to .460). The next popular model was the Benge 5X which has a ML bore (.460) but it's leadpipe and bell flare make it the most open blowing of the ML bore Benges. It also has a slightly darker sound.

Benges are great horns. They are extremely responsive horns.

I hope this helps!

Mike

maynard-46 · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:13 am Post subject:

I would definitely proceed with caution in regards to the eBay auction for the 6X Benge. The seller has "0" feedback and, with the payment options offered the winner, you have absolutely no recourse nor protection if something goes wrong with the transaction. I would NEVER send a money order for a high-priced auction, which I consider this to be. If you have $6-800 to "burn" (and possibly be "out" altogether with nothing to show for it) place your bid! The seller may indeed be an honest, reliable person...I guess I'm just not a "gambler"! If you REALLY want the horn contact the seller and see if he/she will agree to sign up for Paypal and be willing to use that service for payment in the event you are the winner (even if you have to pay their $5 sign-up fee and appropriate Paypal transaction fees). At least that way you'll have some "coverage" for your monetary investment. Just my 2 cents! Good luck!

BW
_________________
TRUMPE: YAMAHA Lacq. "Shew Gen II" / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "TKO" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL.

Trptbenge · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:05 am Post subject:

I agree on the feedback. Zero feedback always bothers me and makes me worry. I guess all of us had it at one time and it may not mean anything but then again it might.

One more thing. I agree with the Benge Loyalist that the best Benges were probably Burbanks. The LA Benges are good and overall a little more consistent. I disagree though on the early LA Benges being the only good ones. The best LA Benge I had was around 43,000 serial number - the worst (eventhough it was basically new - a guy had bought two of them for investment and put them in his closet) was around 12,000. I have found consistently very fine LA Benges from 15,000 to 20,000 serial numbers. Each horn is different. I had a Benge that I thought was a bad player and had the valves aligned and it turned out to be an excellent horn.

Mike