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British-style Brass Band mpc



 
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bean_counter
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Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 61
Location: Oswego, IL

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: British-style Brass Band mpc Reply with quote

Hi,

I just joined a brass band, am playing back row (2nd cornet). Using a Besson 1000 cornet I picked up for cheap. I'll buy something better soon, but it's not a bad horn for small $.

Background: comeback player, my usual trumpet mouthpiece is a Schilke 18 or 18B4. I tried smaller (Schilke 14A4) in a church band that played challenging (to me) commercial style material, but I my chops would "shut down" after a while. "Solved" the problem with the 18B4.

Based on that experience, I started on cornet on a big Denis Wick 2B. Decent sound, endurance just ok, really nice low/mid register where I generally live, but anything over the staff is iffy. Reading the archives I guess that's not too unusual on a 2B.

I've only been at it three weeks, but my thought is that I may have over-compensated and I am using too big a mouthpiece on cornet. Any suggestions on which direction should I go next? Move up a Wick number? Curry BBC? Or?
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Kevin Mc
Strad 37, Schilke 18B4 or 18
anon OTS Bb Saxhorn, Berliner valves c. 1860
Besson 1000 cornet DW 2B
Cousnon clairon Bb
'60s Besson tenor horn DW 3
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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
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Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not a Schilke cornet mouthpiece with the same rim? I personally like to have the same rim from setup to setup, makes going from instrument to instrument easier.

I like Curry rims - an exellent blend of function, comfort, and consistency. But they would probably feel noticabley different from a Schilke ( as well as Wick - which to me would be a drastic change). With my cornet setup, I probably use the Curry BBC the least, DC, TC then BBC or Vintage -VC.

Then, there are a ton of options from a number of makers. As best you can you should experiment - there's no telling what will work the best for you.
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coraltrpt
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Joined: 18 Oct 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Hudson Valley, NY

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to play cornet - not by choice. Switching between horns during concerts is a pain. However, I started using a Stork 2C after going from a 4B and a 2B. Both were too deep for me. The Stork 2C feels a little less awkward and more trumpet-like. I was still able to blend well with our principal player, who is a born-and-raised salvation army cornet player.
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Arbanator
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Joined: 08 Oct 2008
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Location: McLean VA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Wick 4 no letter might be the most common in Britain. Pickett has a line of British cornet mouthpieces designed to be easier to play but reaching for a similar sound. I moved from the Wick 4 to the Pickett 3 and have been happy.
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
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Location: Amador County, CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Based on that experience, I started on cornet on a big Denis Wick 2B. Decent sound, endurance just ok, really nice low/mid register where I generally live, but anything over the staff is iffy. Reading the archives I guess that's not too unusual on a 2B.


Choices. The 2B is the closest to perfection in a cornet mouthpiece for BBB that I've ever found. If you can play that diameter, no need to look further. Gorgeous sound. Depth, response and range are all within your grasp. Just a matter of time.
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Reynolds Contempora French Horn
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bean_counter
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Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 61
Location: Oswego, IL

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you.

I will likely stick with the Wick 2B through the early December Christmas concert, see how that works out, then if needed I’ll look at the Schilke concert series 18E. I didn’t realize they made as a standard item a brass band style mpc with an 18 rim.

The local shop is going to carry Pickett starting next year, I might try them too.

Thanks again!
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Kevin Mc
Strad 37, Schilke 18B4 or 18
anon OTS Bb Saxhorn, Berliner valves c. 1860
Besson 1000 cornet DW 2B
Cousnon clairon Bb
'60s Besson tenor horn DW 3
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi bean_counter

In my experience, Besson cornets and a Denis Wick mouthpiece are a very good match, and really compliment each other. Although fairly large in terms of cup diameter, I don't think that the cup diameter of the Denis Wick 2B is too extreme, and the depth of the B cup is reasonable.

You could try the Denis Wick 3B. Although the quoted cup diameter is 16.75mm, I find a Denis Wick 3B at least feel like it has a larger cup diameter than my large variant Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece, which according to someone who put a copy of my rim on a Denis Wick 4B cornet mouthpiece and adjusted the diameter/shape of the top of the Denis Wick 4B cup to match, has a diameter larger than a typical Bach 1 1/2C.

The Denis Wick 3B is therefore not at all small, and could be worth a try. My understanding is however that the Denis Wick 2B has a nicer sound, and I keep meaning to get one for myself.

All the best

Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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delano
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three weeks, come on.
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BudBix
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Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience the best alternatives to Wick are Warburton's BC cups/backbores and Pickett's British cornet mouthpieces. Both get a nice rich sound while adding enough resistance to improve articulations and endurance.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Denis Wick 3B is therefore not at all small, and could be worth a try. My understanding is however that the Denis Wick 2B has a nicer sound, and I keep meaning to get one for myself.


Ah yes, the quirks of any mouthpiece system. The Wick 3 is different than the other sizes. It does not sound or play like a slightly smaller 2 size. It is brighter in sound than either the 2 or 4. Still a good mouthpiece, but different.

There is something special with the 2B. It has a more Wick no letter sound with the ease of play of a B.
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Reynolds Contempora French Horn
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LSOfanboy
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Quote:
The Denis Wick 3B is therefore not at all small, and could be worth a try. My understanding is however that the Denis Wick 2B has a nicer sound, and I keep meaning to get one for myself.


Ah yes, the quirks of any mouthpiece system. The Wick 3 is different than the other sizes. It does not sound or play like a slightly smaller 2 size. It is brighter in sound than either the 2 or 4. Still a good mouthpiece, but different.

There is something special with the 2B. It has a more Wick no letter sound with the ease of play of a B.


Hi,

The Wick 2 is larger than the 3. The diameter decreases as the number increases- so 1 is largest and 5 is smallest.

Best
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Arbanator
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Joined: 08 Oct 2008
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Location: McLean VA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besson ships its Prestige cornet with an Alliance 2A mouthpiece. It's a good piece.
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:
Richard III wrote:
Quote:
The Denis Wick 3B is therefore not at all small, and could be worth a try. My understanding is however that the Denis Wick 2B has a nicer sound, and I keep meaning to get one for myself.


Ah yes, the quirks of any mouthpiece system. The Wick 3 is different than the other sizes. It does not sound or play like a slightly smaller 2 size. It is brighter in sound than either the 2 or 4. Still a good mouthpiece, but different.

There is something special with the 2B. It has a more Wick no letter sound with the ease of play of a B.


Hi,

The Wick 2 is larger than the 3. The diameter decreases as the number increases- so 1 is largest and 5 is smallest.

Best


Yes, but the rim and perceived ID with the 3 (alpha?) doesn't fit evenly within the line - the 2 feels like a bigger 4, but the 3 is its own weird beast.
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are common solutions to the seemingly never ending With mouthpiece issues everyone hears about all the time.

The first is to just keep on plugging away at it, hoping you will get it to work in the end.

The second, which most try and so many mouthpiece makers have accommodated is to move to a more user friendly brand. I would go down this path.

Frankly, if it isn't working after 3 weeks, then it isn't going to work. One should get an almost immediate feeling that a mouthpiece is going to work for you, not feel like you need to spend weeks or months working with it and accommodating your playing to get it to work!

You will need to do a bit of a search, but will end up with a far more happy setup. Go with a deep Schilke cup matching your current rim as a starter. Then the maker's deep cup cornet mouthpieces which match your rim. For me, it is the rim that needs to work, the cup etc. can all be adjusted to help you create the sound you want...

cheers

Andy
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