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Mmmatt
Regular Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 28
Location: Milwaukee, Wi
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 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | Did you try PB Blaster among your attempts with penetrating oil? |
That was day 1 but only had a little in the can and went to wd40 and liquid wrench then trifles and some silicone stuff. I threw everything in the gatrage at it.
_________________
1965 Getzen Severinsen
1929 Holton Llewellyn
1972ish Rudy Mück Citation
1969 Reynolds Emperor Flugelhorn
1956 Olds Recording |
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BraeGrimes
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 269
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| TrumpetMD wrote: | | It sounds like you purchased a 100-year-old trumpet that was neglected and non-functioning. It also sounds like you had an expectation about what would be "easy" to fix, and that the shop would be in a position to determine "if it was worth it to free the slides". To me, it sounds more like mismatched expectations between you and the shop.
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As a tech, I 100% agree with this sentiment. Personally, I wouldn't have touched this horn because I don't do valve jobs in house, so you'd spend less by sending it to someone who does. If you want to overhaul it, do it. Everything is possible with a blowtorch and an imagination  |
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yourbrass
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3636
Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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So here are two possible extractions, w/the horn firmly held on a wood mandrel:
1. Drill into the bottom of the plastic mandrel that's stuck and then thread in a large wood screw. Grip the screw w/a vise grip, and back the mandrel out w/a mallet.
2. Use a drumstick of smaller diameter than the casing to strike the plastic mandrel from the top in an attempt to remove it.
I say this because the horn is lost otherwise - you might as well learn something!
Good Luck.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| yourbrass wrote: | So here are two possible extractions, w/the horn firmly held on a wood mandrel:
1. Drill into the bottom of the plastic mandrel that's stuck and then thread in a large wood screw. Grip the screw w/a vise grip, and back the mandrel out w/a mallet.
2. Use a drumstick of smaller diameter than the casing to strike the plastic mandrel from the top in an attempt to remove it.
I say this because the horn is lost otherwise - you might as well learn something!
Good Luck. |
It appears the valve is still stuck. If so, coming from the top isn’t an option.
What a mess.
Last edited by LittleRusty on Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mmmatt
Regular Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 28
Location: Milwaukee, Wi
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| yourbrass wrote: | So here are two possible extractions, w/the horn firmly held on a wood mandrel:
1. Drill into the bottom of the plastic mandrel that's stuck and then thread in a large wood screw. Grip the screw w/a vise grip, and back the mandrel out w/a mallet.
2. Use a drumstick of smaller diameter than the casing to strike the plastic mandrel from the top in an attempt to remove it.
I say this because the horn is lost otherwise - you might as well learn something!
Good Luck. |
This is pretty much where I’m at. I did buy another (working) similar horn so this may be a practice piece for any work I need to do on that. The newer purchase however appears near perfect. I would like to learn basic repair and that may be the value in this horn. I heard of someone who replaced the receiver on a similar horn to take modern mouthpiece shanks and that was something I was considering so this would be a practice piece for that potentially.
I’m wondering, if with the plug in the valve casing, I could flood the valve with oil and leave it for a week. Maybe rubber band a plastic bag over the bottom to help hold the oil in. Part of me wants to fix this myself and bring it back to the shop and play it. LOL
_________________
1965 Getzen Severinsen
1929 Holton Llewellyn
1972ish Rudy Mück Citation
1969 Reynolds Emperor Flugelhorn
1956 Olds Recording |
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yourbrass
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3636
Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | yourbrass wrote: | So here are two possible extractions, w/the horn firmly held on a wood mandrel:
1. Drill into the bottom of the plastic mandrel that's stuck and then thread in a large wood screw. Grip the screw w/a vise grip, and back the mandrel out w/a mallet.
2. Use a drumstick of smaller diameter than the casing to strike the plastic mandrel from the top in an attempt to remove it.
I say this because the horn is lost otherwise - you might as well learn something!
Good Luck. |
It appears the valve is still stuck. If so, coming from the top isn’t an option.
What a mess. |
OK, didn't realize that. My usual technique is a wing screw that threads deeply into the valve stem of the frozen valve. Once that's in, vice grips on the screw head, and pull. And again, with the horn SECURELY on a bell mandrel, wooden table leg type. If hand pulling doesn't work. clamp the vise grip perpendicular to the valve casing and tap out w/a mallet. Be very careful not to hit another casing while doing so - put the other top caps back on to protect the threads.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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Robert P
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Mmmatt wrote: | | Robert P wrote: | | Did you try PB Blaster among your attempts with penetrating oil? |
That was day 1 but only had a little in the can and went to wd40 and liquid wrench then trifles and some silicone stuff. I threw everything in the gatrage at it. |
Original formula WD 40 in the blue can isn't penetrating oil - it's actually designed to displace water, hence the "WD" in the name. It has some temporary lubricating effect but dries out. I see there's a version that's marketed as for penetrating.
PB Blaster is the stuff to use, maybe in conjunction with some judicious heating, tapping, soaking and patience. From past experience Liquid Wrench is only marginally better than tap water.
Just don't inhale PB Blaster, it's some noxious stuff.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Mmmatt
Regular Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 28
Location: Milwaukee, Wi
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys. So the saga continues. I bought a couple more vintage horns. Of course they were cheap but all needed a little love. I took all of them to Pacetti’s Music in Kenosha. For anyone in SE Wisconsin looking for a walk in shop, I highly recommend them. Their head tech is Chuck and he was great. He built horns for LaBlanc and the Conn-Selmer. Even worked on the rebooted Committee trumpets back in the day.
Anyways, he straightened out a twisted lead pipe on a Rudy Mück Citation and did a nice job. I then brought him my 65 Getzen Severinsen that had a pretty ugly/sharp crinkle in the bell, a flat spot on the bell tail by the receiver, and the bell tail was canted toward the receiver as well. I figured there would be some evidence of the repair, but it looks perfect. He also did a visual port alignment for me after I had done pads and felts. Then my other Holton, which is the 29 Llewellyn (not the botched repair) needed pads and felts and had an occasional hang on the first valve. He did all the felts/pads, lightly relaped the first valve, did da visual alignment, and freed the 3rd valve dump slide. Horn plays wonderfully. These repairs were done next day, and I don’t even want to say how inexpensive they were because I think he may have taken a shine to me and hooked me up.
The botched Holton is now at his shop and he is going to take a crack at that first valve. Before bringing it to him I flooded the valve casing with PB Blaster for a few days. I guess we will see! I mostly wanted to let people know of my good experience dealing with Chuck at Pacetti’s since nobody seems to have a good local shop now that Charlie Melk went south.
_________________
1965 Getzen Severinsen
1929 Holton Llewellyn
1972ish Rudy Mück Citation
1969 Reynolds Emperor Flugelhorn
1956 Olds Recording |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| It is nice hearing a good story. |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6187
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Sounds like you've found a jewel of a shop to visit! |
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