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PreTrumpet New Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2018 Posts: 2
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: Beginner question about intonation -- please help! |
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Hi all,
I'd like to start trumpet, but I have pretty bad ears. I can't tell if music is out of tune unless it's really obvious (like with Blues music, for example). Should I stay away from the trumpet, or is it possible to learn where the valve corrections need to be made, without relying too much on one's ear?
(I'd learn another instrument like piano or guitar, but an injury in my left hand makes it impossible.)
Thanks very much for any input! |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Everything about playing, learning, hearing, understanding and appreciating music is a process. Everyone has deficiencies at the beginning. With knowledge, practice and experience you can improve your abilities and cure deficiencies. You don't know until you try.
Give yourself a fair opportunity to master playing the trumpet. The deficiencies you mention are not good reasons to give up before you start. Dive in, make an effort and see where that effort leads you. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Couldn't agree more with previous poster - the key is you'll learn. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2330 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:36 am Post subject: |
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+1 HERMOKIWI
Not knowing much about you, I'd venture to say that you're not that different from other beginners. "Ears" are a part of learning the trumpet (and other instruments). A plus that you recognize that weakness.
Make an effort to strengthen that. As you've probably found, practicing the trumpet has its limits (chops fatigue pretty quickly) so, add some singing and piano playing. Both will not only help your recognition of pitch but also your understanding of music.
Keep Pluggin' _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Nixer Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 129
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:46 am Post subject: |
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One thing that made a big difference for me in learning to actually hear what I was playing was to learn to tune my guitar.
When I started trumpet waaay back in 5th grade, and through college, I didn't play any other instrument. I never really appreciated the need to learn to listen to those around me and play in tune. After college I set the trumpet down for 30 years and played guitar instead. Once I picked up a horn again it was amazing how much more aware I was of how badly out of tune I was capable of playing. Having been forced to tune the 6 strings of the guitar over all those years gave me at least some practice in listening.
Work at it, you can do it. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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And, if I may add, don't fool yourself by constantly looking at a tuner. In an ensemble, intonation is also about adjusting to everyone else ... even getting only two trumpets to REALLY sound good together is some work. But the good news is, if you practice and listen carefully to music you will get there. My personal experience is that listening to live performances of brass groups or symphonies with a lot of brass can teach a lot about intonation if you listen carefully. Recordings do not do work quite the same for me.
Took me only 30 years to understand intonation - not to say I am really good at it. It is work in progress. One thing that helped tremendously is taking up the bass trumpet - lots of room to screw up intonation but a really good setup for ear-embochure correlation training. Plus a lot of fun, too. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Beginner question about intonation -- please help! |
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PreTrumpet wrote: | Hi all,
I'd like to start trumpet, but I have pretty bad ears. I can't tell if music is out of tune unless it's really obvious (like with Blues music, for example). Should I stay away from the trumpet, or is it possible to learn where the valve corrections need to be made, without relying too much on one's ear?
(I'd learn another instrument like piano or guitar, but an injury in my left hand makes it impossible.)
Thanks very much for any input! |
To me, this isn't so much about learning to play the trumpet, but learning how to hear pitch, which is an acquired skill. Our ears are pretty amazing devices and can do some stunning things, all it takes is the time to learn!
My way forward if there is a concern about hearing pitch is to use the most natural instrument you have and begin the learning of hearing: by singing. Get into a choir and work on hearing things in the ensemble. This will provide a whole raft of things to work on, like pitch matching, tonal awareness (which can effect intonation) ensemble listening, etc. etc.
I have lost count of the times I hear people tell kids singing in a choir will help their playing! It is true and we should all try it (as time permits).
So... join a local choir, get cracking on it. Get a trumpet and start to LEARN to play it, with a good teacher. Actually, get the teacher first, then get a trumpet and start with their guidance.
Add some time and effort, stir, mix well, let it sit and keep at it.
Enjoy.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Playing at the highest level requires developing a really good ear. But to play at as hobbyist you can probably get by with only modest ear development. It's possible to choose gear with tighter slots making harder to lip note out of tune. As for methods, the James Stamp method helps refine how to play to the center of the slot largely by feel. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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PreTrumpet New Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2018 Posts: 2
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks very much for all the advice, folks! I was afraid I'd have to work on my ears independently of the trumpet (I'm lazy by nature), but if there's no choice in the matter, so be it. |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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PreTrumpet wrote: | I'm lazy by nature |
This is brass playing in a nutshell. We need to work just to make a sound, unlike some other instruments. Our resonator is flesh, unlike ALL other instruments apart from voice.
For those reasons, we need to do more to be able to play to our satisfaction, or face a lot of frustration (and sometimes despite or because of doing a lot of work). There are instruments which may have fewer initial challenges, but those will also eventually require ears.
As a point of departure in your musical journey, you may need a change of mindset to begin.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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trumpetmandan Regular Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Posts: 44
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ear training and good trumpet playing go hand in hand; the more you develop your ear, the quicker you will be to self-correct and improve your trumpet playing. Likewise, the more you practice the trumpet, the more you will develop your ear.
The most important ear training you can do as a beginner is to listen to as many great trumpet players as you can - ingrain good sounds into your ear right from the start. Just listening as well as singing, as others have suggested, will improve your ear by leaps and bounds. Good luck! |
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