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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:41 am Post subject: |
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There is not a single DW mouthpiece in my life, or those of my students. We appear to be surviving OK.
Just food for thought, that.
From my perspective, Wick rims are just not designed at all, they are essentially a rounded off square, add the deep V cup, big throat and narrow backbore I saw on those originals, no wonder I simply could not play at all on them.
They may work for some, and that's fine for them. I'll just continue to use them as sinkers or interesting object for wreck divers to find. (Sorry about that Nige!)
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Yes mr. Del, life is not easy. There has once been a topic here about the backbores of the Wick mouthpieces. There was a certain agreement here that a Wick 4B has something like a 10 Warburton backbore, not particularly narrow. The specs indicate V-type for the B-cups, Opne for the no-letter ones.
BTW I believe that it's quite difficult to judge the backbore of that mouthpieces separately.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95469&sid=24b79f27717c7d399776c5b2944968d7
No science but opinions seem to differ. |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:54 am Post subject: |
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LSOfanboy wrote: | Seymor B Fudd wrote: | delano wrote: | The only thing I tried to say is that from my strictly personal point of view the sound of the classic 4B is much more interesting than the sound of the Heritage 4 though the playability of the latter is much better than that of the former. |
I could add this, from a very personal point of view: in the front row of our brass band 3 guys plays classic wicks, one (me) Wick Ultra and one a Heritage. The Heritage guy, a very talented young man has a superb sound with a round, deep, singing quality and - a clarity of sound not displayed by the classical Wicks which in my humble opinion sound more muddled!
Of course this could be the man not the mouthpiece - but I sincerely doubt that.
But but, we all have personal opinions |
In the most respectful way possible; this is almost certainly about the man and not the mouthpiece.
What is more, if you think the mouthpiece is having an effect, you need to make sure you are comparing like with like. Denis Wick makes a whole range of cornet mouthpieces with varied inner dimensions.
A 4B has a different tonal character to a 4, as does a 3, 3B or any other. IF the mouthpiece was having an effect it is far more likely its to do with the different inner dimensions rather than whether it is a classic or heritage shape. Unless you know for sure all players are on identical sizes, you can't even start beginning to think about the outer shape of the mouthpieces!
All the best |
Mr. Fudd loves his opinions, I never react because I don't want to spoil that. |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1474 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:11 am Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | LSOfanboy wrote: | Seymor B Fudd wrote: | delano wrote: | The only thing I tried to say is that from my strictly personal point of view the sound of the classic 4B is much more interesting than the sound of the Heritage 4 though the playability of the latter is much better than that of the former. |
I could add this, from a very personal point of view: in the front row of our brass band 3 guys plays classic wicks, one (me) Wick Ultra and one a Heritage. The Heritage guy, a very talented young man has a superb sound with a round, deep, singing quality and - a clarity of sound not displayed by the classical Wicks which in my humble opinion sound more muddled!
Of course this could be the man not the mouthpiece - but I sincerely doubt that.
But but, we all have personal opinions |
In the most respectful way possible; this is almost certainly about the man and not the mouthpiece.
What is more, if you think the mouthpiece is having an effect, you need to make sure you are comparing like with like. Denis Wick makes a whole range of cornet mouthpieces with varied inner dimensions.
A 4B has a different tonal character to a 4, as does a 3, 3B or any other. IF the mouthpiece was having an effect it is far more likely its to do with the different inner dimensions rather than whether it is a classic or heritage shape. Unless you know for sure all players are on identical sizes, you can't even start beginning to think about the outer shape of the mouthpieces!
All the best |
Mr. Fudd loves his opinions, I never react because I don't want to spoil that. |
They all play Wick 4B:s. 4 B or not to 4 B..
Oh yes I just love my opinion!! I recall a fine book by Ray Bradbury: Something Wicked this Way Comes
But the Heritage guy has a Yamaha Xeno cornet so it may be about the horn.....while 2 guys have Getzen Eterna, I have a Getzen Custom (3850?) and the guy next to me a Sovereign. All men are not alike _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:26 am Post subject: |
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I've been playing a 4b on trumpet and really like it. I also bought a heritage cornet mouthpiece, but it felt like my lips poked over the rim in a funny way. It's a funny mouthpiece because I've seen it described as Wick's attempt to recreate a 7c, but it also seems bigger/different. I hadn't realized it had the v cup and I thought I'd seen the throat/backbore described as standard. Playing on a Wick made me aware I like a flatter mouthpiece and feel more anchored.
I do wish there were better descriptions/comparisons of Wick out there. I also bought a mm2c when I saw one on sale, and it's hard for me to figure out what exactly it is. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8336 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote: | I've been playing a 4b on trumpet and really like it. I also bought a heritage cornet mouthpiece, but it felt like my lips poked over the rim in a funny way. It's a funny mouthpiece because I've seen it described as Wick's attempt to recreate a 7c, but it also seems bigger/different. I hadn't realized it had the v cup and I thought I'd seen the throat/backbore described as standard. Playing on a Wick made me aware I like a flatter mouthpiece and feel more anchored.
I do wish there were better descriptions/comparisons of Wick out there. I also bought a mm2c when I saw one on sale, and it's hard for me to figure out what exactly it is. |
I don't think the trumpet 4B and the cornet 4B are necessarily similar. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Keith Jarrow New Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2019 Posts: 2 Location: Gateshead
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:52 am Post subject: |
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I’ve been following this thread with great interest (enough for me to join the forum and post my first comment).
I feel the general opinion of this thread seems to be that Dennis Wick mouthpieces, although great for their tonal properties etc might not suit a beginner, here I quote:
“slightly too much resistance”...
“If...you're developed enough to handle them”...
“amateurs should think twice”...
“tough going. The rims can be a bit unforgiving”...
I am a new beginner player; I have a Yamaha cornet, a 2330ii that came with a DW 4B mouthpiece.
I have not tried any other mouthpieces.
Is my 4B holding my development back?
Should I put it away till I’m a better player and buy a different mouthpiece ?? |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Keith Jarrow wrote: | I’ve been following this thread with great interest (enough for me to join the forum and post my first comment).
I feel the general opinion of this thread seems to be that Dennis Wick mouthpieces, although great for their tonal properties etc might not suit a beginner, here I quote:
“slightly too much resistance”...
“If...you're developed enough to handle them”...
“amateurs should think twice”...
“tough going. The rims can be a bit unforgiving”...
I am a new beginner player; I have a Yamaha cornet, a 2330ii that came with a DW 4B mouthpiece.
I have not tried any other mouthpieces.
Is my 4B holding my development back?
Should I put it away till I’m a better player and buy a different mouthpiece ?? |
I've played that combination in the past. Very easy to play. Great sound. No way would it hold you back. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:36 am Post subject: |
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I'd inherited the 4b and liked it. I also have one of the Maurice Murphy mm2c. It is a shallower, larger cup, and one of the first larger cups I've felt like I could play well. This is all just to say ymmv--what's unbearable for some is very comfortable for others. |
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Keith Jarrow New Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2019 Posts: 2 Location: Gateshead
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Thank you both for your reassuring comments.
Im at an exciting stage of playing, where I’m hearing my range increase (almost on a daily basis) but I’d have kicked myself if I thought I was playing ‘the wrong mouth piece’ for a learner, & it was hampering my development.
I’ll re-post in 6 months or so, and comment again on my feelings about
DW 4Bs. |
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