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65strad
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Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 965
Location: Toms River, New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed wrote:
Bach's new line of "Symphonic" mouthpieces come standard with a 24 backbore and either a 24 or 22 throat. My understanding is that Bach decided to manufacture them on the line, rather than as custom mouthpieces, due to the volume of the demand from orchestral players.

I have one of them in a 1.5C, with a 24 backbore and a 22 throat, and I like it.

Take care,
Marc Speed


Haven't tried them yet. Orchestral players are using them?
_________________
Tom
'08 Bach factory custom "one off" 43*G SN#2008
'65 Bach 181 37 SN#30836
'67 Bach 180 37 SN#39773
'70 Bach 181 37 SN#58831
'72 Bach 180S 43 SN#70503
'05 Bach VBS 196 Picc SN#560142
'07 Bach Chicago C SN#656602
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Speed
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Joined: 13 May 2015
Posts: 137
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if orchestral players are using them. I tend to like mouthpieces with open backbores and throats, and I had some extra change in my pocket, so I thought I'd try one. I like it better than a standard 1.5C.

From what I have read, some orchestral players had Bach custom make certain mouthpieces (like a 1.5C) with bigger backbores and throats. Apparently the demand was sufficient to make an assembly line run.

Take care,
Marc Speed
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dstpt
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 455

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another consideration for the OP wanting a free-blowing C is a used Eclipse. I will be posting one in the TH Marketplace in the next day or so, since I'm having a new one made with a custom trigger to the main slide. The Hub van Laar or Adams line might be another possibility.
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James Becker
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2261
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

65strad wrote:
Speed wrote:
Bach's new line of "Symphonic" mouthpieces come standard with a 24 backbore and either a 24 or 22 throat. My understanding is that Bach decided to manufacture them on the line, rather than as custom mouthpieces, due to the volume of the demand from orchestral players.

I have one of them in a 1.5C, with a 24 backbore and a 22 throat, and I like it.

Take care,
Marc Speed


Haven't tried them yet. Orchestral players are using them?



We stock the Bach Symphonic model mouthpieces and they've been well received. We can still alter any stock mouthpiece of your choosing or your existing mouthpiece with these custom alterations. The choice is up to you.

I hope this is helpful.
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
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cgaiii
Regular Member


Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 53
Location: Virginia USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I started this thread, I figured I should post my results.
I played a bunch of C trumpets, slowly eliminating ones that were on my list for one reason or another, winnowing the untried list down to the Kanstul 1510 and Schilke CXL.
Then Kanstul sent out an e-mail about a year-end clearance sale. I wrote back asking about bugles, but they are made to order, so none on sale. Just in case I asked about C trumpets and wound up buying a new (old stock -- valve section built around 2000, final assembly ??) 1510-2 (silver plate). I figured I could sell it if I did not like it.
As it turns out, I like it a lot, more than any C I have played. Very even through all the registers, reasonably free blowing (large bore at 464). The first time I played it my wife commented on how nice the sound was -- and you can imagine how tired of trumpets she is. Great tone, fine intonation for a C. And I don't have much trouble transitioning from my Bb, so I am pretty happy with it.
I started out playing it with my Bb mouthpiece (Bach 1.5C with throat enlarged to 26, normal 10 backbore). I have tried one of Bach's Symphonic mouthpieces (26 throat 24 backbore), but I returned to my normal Bb, because it sounds better as per the comments of others. I felt that the lower half of the Symphonic mouthpiece from the narrowing through the shank was a bit light and took away from the sound. Several people listened and said the same.
Would still love to try a CXL, but so far no luck. The Kanstul is definitely a usable horn for me and quite enjoyable to play with a lot of flavors to the tone. I have a lot to learn about it yet, but am enjoying the process.
Additionally, Charles Hargett at Kanstul was very pleasant to deal with.
_________________
Bb: 1995 Schilke X3L AS SP
C: Kanstul 1510-2 (SP)
Picc: 2001 Kanstul 920 (SP)
Natural/Baroque Tr: Altenburg (unfinished polished brass)
Bass Tr: Mack Brass stencil (Jin Bao) (SP)
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4285
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi cgaiii

Congratulations on your new C trumpet. My C trumpet is also Kanstul built and I also bought it new old stock. Mine however is a French Besson Classic, so probably very different in specs to yours. However like you, I'm very pleased with my C.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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cgaiii
Regular Member


Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 53
Location: Virginia USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Lou,

I saw your post about a new Bb on another thread, but did not feel I had any thing to add that would help. I wish I could be as helpful to you as you have been to me.

I am really enjoying the horn but have no idea how it compares to the French Besson. It has the copper bell under the silver plating, and that was another thing I wanted to try in a trumpet. Allows some nice coloring and I think adds a good bit to what people like in the sound.
_________________
Bb: 1995 Schilke X3L AS SP
C: Kanstul 1510-2 (SP)
Picc: 2001 Kanstul 920 (SP)
Natural/Baroque Tr: Altenburg (unfinished polished brass)
Bass Tr: Mack Brass stencil (Jin Bao) (SP)
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4285
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgaiii wrote:
Thanks Lou,

Hi Cgaiii

You are very welcome.


I saw your post about a new Bb on another thread, but did not feel I had any thing to add that would help. I wish I could be as helpful to you as you have been to me.

No worries, and you are again very welcome.

I am really enjoying the horn but have no idea how it compares to the French Besson.

No, I don't either. Off-hand I don't know the specs for either the Kanstul 1510-2 or my French Besson Classic, and even if I did, they probably wouldn't indicate how similarly they may play to each other.

It has the copper bell under the silver plating, and that was another thing I wanted to try in a trumpet. Allows some nice coloring and I think adds a good bit to what people like in the sound.

I haven't tried a copper bell. I'm glad to hear that you like this aspect of your trumpet. My C trumpet is lacquered and appears to have a yellow brass bell.

Best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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cgaiii
Regular Member


Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 53
Location: Virginia USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou,

For many years I played a horn with a gold brass bell. I always liked the coloring I could get out of it, but the horn was an intermediate horn and when I started getting more serious about my playing a few years ago I ran into its limitations. Since the copper content goes up yellow brass --> gold brass --> red brass -- copper, I was curious about the copper bell. I would say it recovers the coloring I liked and then some, but I am still new to the horn. It is not extreme in any way, so it may also be other aspects of the horn.
Interesting about the Besson, but I guess that yellow brass is the metal of choice for most horns -- I know my Bb is yellow brass as are most parts of this horn.
Wouldn't it be fun to try all kinds and figure out what the different metals affected.
_________________
Bb: 1995 Schilke X3L AS SP
C: Kanstul 1510-2 (SP)
Picc: 2001 Kanstul 920 (SP)
Natural/Baroque Tr: Altenburg (unfinished polished brass)
Bass Tr: Mack Brass stencil (Jin Bao) (SP)
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4285
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgaiii wrote:
Lou,

For many years I played a horn with a gold brass bell. I always liked the coloring I could get out of it, but the horn was an intermediate horn and when I started getting more serious about my playing a few years ago I ran into its limitations. Since the copper content goes up yellow brass --> gold brass --> red brass -- copper, I was curious about the copper bell. I would say it recovers the coloring I liked and then some, but I am still new to the horn.

Hi Cgaiii

Thanks very much for the above.


It is not extreme in any way, so it may also be other aspects of the horn.

Yes, could be, as obviously unless the horns are identical in all other specifications (difficult in itself as no two horns are ever truly completely identical) it is difficult to tell categorically, but if the sound seems to be colouring in the same way, then the copper content of the bell could be the reason.

Interesting about the Besson, but I guess that yellow brass is the metal of choice for most horns -- I know my Bb is yellow brass as are most parts of this horn.

Yellow brass is definitely common. I don't know much about my C trumpet in regards to what bell options and materials were available.

Wouldn't it be fun to try all kinds and figure out what the different metals affected.

It would indeed.

Thanks very much.

Best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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cgaiii
Regular Member


Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 53
Location: Virginia USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me: Wouldn't it be fun to try all kinds and figure out what the different metals affected.

Lou: It would indeed.

The closest I can come to this is on my frequent trips to Japan (for business), I get to browse the used musical instrument shops. In every major city there are many, particularly in Tokyo, and they tend to be lined up on a single street in a couple of different districts and there is always good stuff around. So you can walk the street, stopping in the brass shops and try used horns. Since I am really no longer in need of a horn now (oh well except maybe a bugle, maybe an Eb/D or a four valve bass trumpet ( )), I might make a quest to try a particular metal each time, might be fun. Just messing around is how I found my Bb. It would be fun. The problem is when I find something I really like.
_________________
Bb: 1995 Schilke X3L AS SP
C: Kanstul 1510-2 (SP)
Picc: 2001 Kanstul 920 (SP)
Natural/Baroque Tr: Altenburg (unfinished polished brass)
Bass Tr: Mack Brass stencil (Jin Bao) (SP)
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 4285
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgaiii wrote:
Me: Wouldn't it be fun to try all kinds and figure out what the different metals affected.

Lou: It would indeed.

The closest I can come to this is on my frequent trips to Japan (for business), I get to browse the used musical instrument shops. In every major city there are many, particularly in Tokyo, and they tend to be lined up on a single street in a couple of different districts and there is always good stuff around. So you can walk the street, stopping in the brass shops and try used horns.

Hi cgaiii

Sounds really great!


Since I am really no longer in need of a horn now (oh well except maybe a bugle, maybe an Eb/D or a four valve bass trumpet ( )), I might make a quest to try a particular metal each time, might be fun.

Yes, sounds fun.

Just messing around is how I found my Bb. It would be fun. The problem is when I find something I really like.

You could justify it lol as a treat for your hard work, since you found it whilst on a business trip

All the best

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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