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What will you do when they come for your mouthpiece?


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KRELL1960
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure this will rear its ugly head shortly in NYC with our ultra liberal mayor, but i have to say, i don't think i have ever read or heard of a brass player who showed signs of lead exposure.
just too wierd, but then again, i don't know everything, just ask my wife.

regards,

tom
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KRELL1960 wrote:
but i have to say, i don't think i have ever read or heard of a brass player who showed signs of lead exposure.

Would you be able to tell?
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tptptp
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two things are driving me crazy:
1) Songs with I, V, vi, IV and permutations.
2) Debbie downerism.
3) Contempt prior to investigation.

Oops. That’s three.
Oops. I do #3.
😀
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Speed
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about proposing drastic action before proper investigation?

Take care,
Marc Speed
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amzi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, you're not concerned about the possibility of some degree of lead toxicity from this? Think about some fourth-grader who starts playing trumpet, plays every day for years, has other lead exposures (e.g. from lead paint residue, air pollution), and suffers some brain damage as a result. I'm not saying that exposure from a mouthpiece will lead to toxicity (I have no idea how much lead one might imbibe nor how that compares to toxic levels), but it seems just common sense to regulate any identified sources. Lead exposures are much higher in lower income communities where regulations are relaxed or not affordable. I'd urge you to be a little slower to conclude that these concerns have no merit.


I started playing the trumpet when in 1959, I was 8, and played all the time. By the time I was a senior in high school I was playing 4 hours a day. I lived in houses, apartments, dormitories and barracks that had been painted with lead paint until I was 24. After that I lived in houses and apartments that were painted with lead paint until I was 31. During that time I regularly shot firearms, cast lead bullets from lead I smelted myself and reloaded the resulting bullets by hand. Later I continued to play routinely but never over a couple of hours a day, and until about 10 years I shot competitively (indoor pistol) usually with cast lead bullets and often in ranges lacking an adequate and appropriate ventilation system. About the same time I quit shooting competitively I was tested for lead. The levels were found to be withing normal limits. So, no, I'm not worried about lead poisoning from mouthpieces.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a lot of "my grandpa smoked every day for 50 years and he lived to 90, so there's no health risks with cigarettes" wisdom on this thread.

As for myself, I'm a fairly skeptical that properly plated mouthpieces pose a significant threat. However, while I'm not inclined to take the word of a click-bait blogger about this, the dubiously eloquent bloviating of players whose expertise is largely based on blowing hard is equally dismissible.

On the other hand, it's fun watching trumpet players get their overly tight panties in a wad - definitely up there in terms of easily offended groups.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
There is a lot of "my grandpa smoked every day for 50 years and he lived to 90, so there's no health risks with cigarettes" wisdom on this thread.

As for myself, I'm a fairly skeptical that properly plated mouthpieces pose a significant threat. However, while I'm not inclined to take the word of a click-bait blogger about this, the dubiously eloquent bloviating of players whose expertise is largely based on blowing hard is equally dismissible.

On the other hand, it's fun watching trumpet players get their overly tight panties in a wad - definitely up there in terms of easily offended groups.


Thinly veiled insults against those with opposing opinions tells me all I need to know about your panties...
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epoustoufle
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been prepping for this day my entire life! I have enough Schilke 14A4A's buried in an underground bunker to last me for years. YEARS!!111

I also have an underground bunker - duh! - and crates of tuna fish. When they finally come for the Schilke's I'll be an old man with no front teeth and they can have 'em. So I'm not worried, the dubbas are safe!
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reasonably certain that a properly silver plated mouthpiece will shield the player from any potential exposure to lead in the base alloy and here's why:

I also do picture framing, and the question of shielding art work from "acid migration" is a concern in conserving them. Acid can come from wood or wood pulp products and if in contact with canvas, paper, or textiles, can discolor or even rot them over time.

What is an effective barrier to acid? Metal and glass, as it turns out from laboratory testing. There are aluminum and copper barrier tapes that can be used to seal off the wood interior of a frame. These are thin, very thin, and similar to the thickness of a good plating job on a brass mouthpiece.

So the old adage "Replate or replace" is still sound advice.

-Lionel
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
There is a lot of "my grandpa smoked every day for 50 years and he lived to 90, so there's no health risks with cigarettes" wisdom on this thread.

As for myself, I'm a fairly skeptical that properly plated mouthpieces pose a significant threat. However, while I'm not inclined to take the word of a click-bait blogger about this, the dubiously eloquent bloviating of players whose expertise is largely based on blowing hard is equally dismissible.

On the other hand, it's fun watching trumpet players get their overly tight panties in a wad - definitely up there in terms of easily offended groups.

Well stated.
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jetjaguar
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's more info, and a video. Sorry if already posted:

https://abc7news.com/health/bay-area-environmental-group-challenges-lead-in-musical-mouthpieces/5103591/
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jetjaguar
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm sure that CEO Michael Green knows his business. He must be confident that the mouthpiece makers and sellers don't have any defense by showing that the amount of lead released is not harmful, or that the way a mouthpiece is normally played and handled does not produce a harmful amount of lead. It would be interesting to hear if they're just going to submit, or mount a challenge of some kind. Will they band together and get legal defense? And will there be a mouthpiece buzzing symphony if they are successful?
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amuk
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife has been telling me for years that trumpet playing is making me crazy but, maybe she's right and the lead from my favorite mouthpiece is getting to me. Time to replate it.
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epoustoufle
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well to be fair on "them", they previously came for the lead paint, lead fuel additives, cigarettes, asbestos - not to mention food safety, worker's rights, social security, universal health insurance. "They" also came for teh guns :OMG!!!: in most of the Western world, which seemed to solve the mystery of mass-shootings. So "they" have a pretty damn good track record actually.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

did get lead poisoning from a mouthpiece.....not much fun

BUT... the mouthpiece had a swipe of actual lead (solder) lining the inside of the cup. The mouthpiece rim was a screw rim that at some poit the threads stripped and then the rim was soldered on and NOT silverplated afterwards.
I played it for about a year, and had a habit of sticking my tongue into the cup quite often when counting or resting etc. Like sucking a lead poisoning lollypop.

At some point i found myself missing my exit by 30 miles, on the way home from salsa gigs, developed a stutter with my speech, annd had trouble counting rests on pieces that i knew quite well. I could still count when reading though better than on pieces i knew. Also had a general feeling of malaise as i recall.

Figured it out when i went to a chiropractor regarding my neck or back, and a doctor there head me say what was happening. He said "are you exposed to lead?"....... and i knew immediately that i was. Every time i played that mouthpiece i said "hmmmm there is lead in there"...... not thinking it was much of a deal.

You take care of it with chelation,

I case anybody is wondering, i do know how stupid it was, so please spare any comments about it.

having said all of that, i work with leaded brass all the time with my hands, and regularly get my blood checked. It never shows anything. Plus i play several hours a day on silverplated mouthpieces. Also i had a friend who checks for lead in houses etc check my mouthpieces and workbench and nothing showed. That was dry though. I doubt that lead would leach through sliverplating.
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jetjaguar
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe mouthpiece makers will end up having to put warnings on the pieces, about not putting your mouth on the other end, not using the piece if the plating appears worn off anywhere.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah before that we would switch to 353 brass or some other no lead alloy. I don’t like 353 at all but it could be done. There is probably an alloy that machines better than 353. I might be think of 356 and calling it 353. I can look up the alloys. 360 has lead and is called free marching brass. Cutting a backbite with 353 would be hard I’m thinking
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All of my posts are done with my phone on the fly, and it will sometimes auto-correct in some pretty unusual ways. Think of it like a crossword:)
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jetjaguar
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
Nah before that we would switch to 353 brass or some other no lead alloy. I don’t like 353 at all but it could be done. There is probably an alloy that machines better than 353. I might be think of 356 and calling it 353. I can look up the alloys. 360 has lead and is called free marching brass. Cutting a backbite with 353 would be hard I’m thinking


Was backbite Freudian or fat phone fingers?
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