Jaw and roll-in

HJ · Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:09 am Post subject:

Hi,

I have a student who is very true to doing BE as much as he can. This is about ten minutes a day I guess, but he can do the roll-out 1, 2 and 3 with a reasonable sound and roll-in 1 and 2 with control.
A few weeks ago he complained about having an painful jaw/jawmuscles (right below the ears). We discussed this problem, and I saw that he pushed his jaw forward when he did the roll-in. I told him not to do this, and the roll-ins sounded the same or even better. So, problem solved. I saw him again two weeks later and he did not have this problem anymore.
In these two weeks however, I did some self analysis and discovered that I pushed my jaw forward as well. Occassionaly I experienced some pain in my jaw, too, but never really thought about it. I sometimes tend to overdo and have to take a few steps back.
I tried to do the roll-ins without pushing my jaw forward (which was totally unconcious) and it works better!!! The sound opens up and the jaw is more relaxed and out of the way.
About fifteen years back, a teacher told me to put my lower jaw more forward (Stevens method) because of my slight overbite. This became a habit (and I don't think it is a bad one actually), but when doing the roll-in it gets in the way. Besides that, in the BE book Jeff does not mention jaw position at all, so it is not important how you do it, as long as you stay out of trouble. So, are there more people experiencing jaw problems?
The solution is very simple: just pay attention to it and don't push your jaw forward. If pushing the jaw forward helps you get the roll-in better I guess it is OK to do it, but it should not give you any pain.

BTW, this goes for roll-out, too. When I do the roll-out, my jaw recedes. I have no trouble with this, so I just do it like that, the sound is good this way, and the exercise works for me this way. As some of us know, the roll-out principles come from Callets Trumpet Yoga, and he advocates a forward jaw position while doing roll-out. I tried this, just to know if that made it sound better or give me a better rolled out feel, but this really gave me an aching jaw after a couple of minutes, so I stayed away from it. Jeff, again, does not talk about jaw position, so just do it the way it sounds best, just to avoid problems.

Bert

[ This Message was edited by: HJ on 2004-02-23 10:12 ]

trumpetjunkie · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 622

I cannot maintian a good roll-in without my jaw slightly forward...
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Larrios · Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:59 pm Post subject:

Hi Bert!

I recognise the acking jaw problem and for me the solution has been the same. Like you, I've also experimented with the Stevens-Costello thing (that's before I knew about BE) and that's when I first experienced the kind of cramp in my jaw, located below my ear. (It only happens to me on the right side, by the way.) Basically, for both roll in and roll out, for me it's important to just stay focussed at lipmovement. At some point I found myself partly relying on my jaw and I reached a plateau that way. Now that my lips are doing more of the work and my jaw is 'unlocked', progress continued once again.

Ko

HJ · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:31 am Post subject:

Ko,

I didn't know that I did this thing with my jaw, but when you say 'I found myself partly relying on my jaw', that is what happened to me. When I unlock the jaw (and this is absolutely not hard to do, I just have to pay attention to it) it feels as if there is something out of the way. The loips (and particularly the bottom lip) have more of a chance to take over, so I think it is better this way. It gives me a better roll-in and the sound has improved (it is easier to play louder this way).
BTW. trumpetjunkie, I don't think it is wrong to push the jaw forward, as long as there is no discomfort.

Bert

mcamilleri · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:42 pm Post subject:

Jeff does mention jaw forward position in the trouble-shooting section, as a 'bag of tricks' solution to the problem 'Bottom lip tucked under top lip', page 144 (I have the book today

). This is obviously not for general application!

Jaw position used to be fairly critical to me, but recently I find I have much more freedom in the jaw, and can play roll-in or roll-out with jaw forward or back, open or clenched shut. I am guessing that my lip position has gained strength and integrity recently, and is not as interdependent with other factors as it once was.

Michael

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[ This Message was edited by: mcamilleri on 2004-02-24 20:24 ]

HJ · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:27 am Post subject:

He Michael,

<I am guessing that my lip position has gained strength and integrity recently,>

That is a great observation. Maybe that is what's happening to me right now. My lips are taking over. Instead of unconsiously using the forward jaw to keep the seal, the lips now make the seal itself. So it is more like a new phase in BE. To me there is not so much difference either between a forward or receded jaw, more closed, or more open. Just like the tongue it does not really matter where it is, but in the case of the jaw it is important that it does not hurt in any way. And just maybe you profit more from the roll-in when your jaw does not support the lips too much. Just let them wok on their own.
Bert