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My notes on studying Bergeron, Faddis, Ross and Anderson



 
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NickD
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject: My notes on studying Bergeron, Faddis, Ross and Anderson Reply with quote

OK, this is the LAST blog post on this subject. What a relief, eh?



For my final push in my studying how I can improve my playing beyond DHC (for what that is worth), I felt I had to look over how Wayne Bergeron, Jon Faddis, Rashawn Ross and Cat Anderson approached this stuff.

So, for one last time, here are my stream of consciousness notes from carefully watching how these luminaries approached this sort of playing.

https://www.nickdrozdoff.com/single-post/2019/04/04/My-Notes-from-Bergeron-Faddis-Ross-Anderson

Peace.
ND
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m getting this waiting for a plane at JFK. Can’t wait to listen to it! Don’t stop! Love your info, Nick.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: My notes on studying Bergeron, Faddis, Ross and Anderson Reply with quote

NickD wrote:
OK, this is the LAST blog post on this subject. What a relief, eh?


Nick, I for one really appreciate your blog posts on this subject. I've analyzed these same videos (and others) over the years, and really appreciate a player of your caliber providing their perspective.
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NickD
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: thanks, and ostensibly... Reply with quote

because I like to say ostensibly once in a while...

I like sharing this stuff, these days. My days as a trumpet teacher are most certainly over, but as a perpetual student, I most certainly am just getting going!!!

My ideas or the things I pick up on and make a note of in the last several blogs along this line are just that - things that leapt out to ME as I am developing my own ideas. The odds are more than just a little good that most of you cold get a lot of very different ideas. That's cool! I am just trying to share my process - not whatever the final setting is for my chops, etc.

Check out the other "notes blogs", too.

Or don't!

ND
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gabriel127
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nick, I've always loved your videos. I prefer videos to reading blogs.

Regarding the above dbl C thing, I have to ask one question:

Why?

I mean, there's so much to master on the trumpet in the double C and below range, why worry about notes that are in the range where they have no musical value? I can see maybe wanting a double D, but seriously any higher than that starts to sound like squeaky freak show stuff rather than something musical.

Sure, we've heard people go above double C, but let's face it, if Doc Severinsen never played up to the F above that, would we really miss it or consider him any less of a trumpet player? I wouldn't.

I don't think that the ability to play above double C reinforces one's ability to play double C and below. Look at Brian MacDonald, one of the best lead players in existence today. Unless something's changed recently, he doesn't play at all above double C, but he's got great control, sound, and the swingin' lead feel all the way up to and including that note. Isn't that enough? It would be for me if I could do it.

Just thought I'd ask.

And by the way, Jim Manley would be another one to look at if you're trying to observe what people who play in that range are doing.
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peanuts56
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard Faddis live two times. First time was around 1974 and the second time was in 2007. While his videos are impressive they do him no justice compared to hearing him live. Jon's power is astounding and Nick makes reference to how easy he makes it look. Last time I saw him he was fronting the SUNY Purchase Faculty Big Band. He sometimes doubled the lead player and he did it off the microphone. I think Ron Tooley was playing lead. Jon's sound rang out clear as a bell without the microphone. He didn't play a whole lot but when he did it was amazing. He looked as if he had hurt his back by the way he was walking. I assume that was why he didn't play too much.
I also heard Cat in person in the early 70's with Lionel Hampton's Band. He played easily into the triples and sounded great that night. Power wise he was not quite as strong as Faddis.
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: My notes on studying Bergeron, Faddis, Ross and Anderson Reply with quote

NickD wrote:
OK, this is the LAST blog post on this subject. What a relief, eh?



For my final push in my studying how I can improve my playing beyond DHC (for what that is worth), I felt I had to look over how Wayne Bergeron, Jon Faddis, Rashawn Ross and Cat Anderson approached this stuff.

So, for one last time, here are my stream of consciousness notes from carefully watching how these luminaries approached this sort of playing.

https://www.nickdrozdoff.com/single-post/2019/04/04/My-Notes-from-Bergeron-Faddis-Ross-Anderson

Peace.
ND



RE: Wayne's experience,

The thing I would like know more about regarding Bergeron is what his chops were like in his early years on the trumpet. I've "heard tell" some fascinating matters. Fascinating not only because of how quickly he developed into a powerful trumpet player but fascinating because of some of the clues his experience leaves behind.

As such? I've been told that Bergeron had amazing high notes. Right off the bat! Like within a week or two after he began. Again I can't remember where I heard this so don't quote me. Fact is that I'm practically dying to get some corroboration for this tale.

The story continues that although Wayne could near immediately play his "do, re, mi's" from high C to DHC?

That he really struggled to blow a good Low C for his first couple years on the horn! Now, if this is true? It tells me personally some very important facts. For starters,

Wayne appears to be the classic, "Type IV A" as defined by Reinhardt. Or if you know anything about Stevens-Costello? We know that Wayne's embouchure is exactly the kind described by Roy Stevens. And? Lower register difficulties were almost a universal and inherent difficulty that young students had to overcome with Roy's system.

I know that my buddy Dick O. from Northampton, MA struggled a bit in his lower register. Even as he showed me a nice G above DHC!

Lastly, now that I've finally discovered a way for me to tweak the Stevens System and build this incredible embouchure?

I too have struggled to get my low C to blossom. However it is getting much better. That and with plenty of work on my fundamentals? I've "lowered" the point where my lower register starts sounding crappy. If you ever get to chat with Wayne again? It would be great to hear of his comments regarding my questions (above)
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SteveDurand
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lionel,
I have a DVD that Wayne made called "Playing Lead Trumpet".

He talks about his start on the trumpet and says that he originally started on the french horn. They needed trumpet players so he switched. He says that his first notes were very high squeaks when he was just trying to play normal notes and he thought that he was doing very poorly. It turns out he was playing double Cs. His band director recognized this.

This was in Junior High!

He also says that he used a lot of arm pressure and cut his lip often throughout junior high and high school.

Steve
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick,

Thank you for doing these. I enjoy them. However I would like you to further explain” today’s squeak is tomorrow’s note.” I used to believe in this. but I’ve been able to squeak a fifth or so higher than my range for over a year now and I hadn’t made any range improvements. Range is something I really struggle with, and have never had any consistency in. Is squeaking not for everyone? Is there something else wrong with my approach?

Thanks,

CJ
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: My notes on studying Bergeron, Faddis, Ross and Anderson Reply with quote

Lionel wrote:


RE: Wayne's experience,

The thing I would like know more about regarding Bergeron is what his chops were like in his early years on the trumpet. I've "heard tell" some fascinating matters. Fascinating not only because of how quickly he developed into a powerful trumpet player but fascinating because of some of the clues his experience leaves behind.

As such? I've been told that Bergeron had amazing high notes. Right off the bat! Like within a week or two after he began. Again I can't remember where I heard this so don't quote me. Fact is that I'm practically dying to get some corroboration for this tale.


He's mentioned it in masterclasses. He started on French horn, and then when he switched to trumpet, the first notes the first notes he played were high notes.

Quote:

Wayne appears to be the classic, "Type IV A" as defined by Reinhardt. Or if you know anything about Stevens-Costello? We know that Wayne's embouchure is exactly the kind described by Roy Stevens. And? Lower register difficulties were almost a universal and inherent difficulty that young students had to overcome with Roy's system.

You are probably misunderstanding the Reinhardt labelling system. Bergeron is definitely not a IVA. I've seen him typed as a IIIA several times on the Reinhardt forum.

Stevens-costello is roughly explaining what an ordinary Type IV embouchure is.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faddis was a guest soloist with my college big band (mid-80's) and I have seen him live a couple of time since, he is an amazing player. His power is more pronounced in person. On mic and in recordings his upper register takes on a laser sound, but in person it definitely has a lot more overtones to it. He is documented as having a DHC in high school as well.

One common thread between a number of the most notable high note players is tooth structure. Anecdotally a gap in the center would seem to be an enabler since it gives the airstream a direct path to the aperture, which Faddis, Bergeron, Maynard (in the earlier years), Nicholson, Ross, etc. clearly have. Lynn and Wayne don't have a gap per se, but more of a chip in one of their front teeth. That theory falls apart though when you consider the widely known story about Maynard having his teeth capped, closing the gap. After a brief period of adjustment he was back to playing like nothing changed. Brisbois was also know for having a "Hollywood" smile with no noticeable gaps, Cat Anderson was the same as far as you can see in photos. I think it's more about having a high point right behind the aperture, freeing up the lip from the tooth surface. In Maynard's case it's clear to see:



You can see he set the mouthpiece on top of the high spot to (his) right of center. The tooth next to it is recessed, providing a nice pocket for the aperture. Beyond that, he was a musical prodigy and put in the 1000's of hours of work to develop into one of the greatest players of all time.
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: My notes on studying Bergeron, Faddis, Ross and Anderson Reply with quote

Lionel wrote:
NickD wrote:
OK, this is the LAST blog post on this subject. What a relief, eh?



For my final push in my studying how I can improve my playing beyond DHC (for what that is worth), I felt I had to look over how Wayne Bergeron, Jon Faddis, Rashawn Ross and Cat Anderson approached this stuff.

So, for one last time, here are my stream of consciousness notes from carefully watching how these luminaries approached this sort of playing.

https://www.nickdrozdoff.com/single-post/2019/04/04/My-Notes-from-Bergeron-Faddis-Ross-Anderson

Peace.
ND



RE: Wayne's experience,

The thing I would like know more about regarding Bergeron is what his chops were like in his early years on the trumpet. I've "heard tell" some fascinating matters. Fascinating not only because of how quickly he developed into a powerful trumpet player but fascinating because of some of the clues his experience leaves behind.

As such? I've been told that Bergeron had amazing high notes. Right off the bat! Like within a week or two after he began. Again I can't remember where I heard this so don't quote me. Fact is that I'm practically dying to get some corroboration for this tale.

The story continues that although Wayne could near immediately play his "do, re, mi's" from high C to DHC?

That he really struggled to blow a good Low C for his first couple years on the horn! Now, if this is true? It tells me personally some very important facts. For starters,

Wayne appears to be the classic, "Type IV A" as defined by Reinhardt. Or if you know anything about Stevens-Costello? We know that Wayne's embouchure is exactly the kind described by Roy Stevens. And? Lower register difficulties were almost a universal and inherent difficulty that young students had to overcome with Roy's system.

I know that my buddy Dick O. from Northampton, MA struggled a bit in his lower register. Even as he showed me a nice G above DHC!

Lastly, now that I've finally discovered a way for me to tweak the Stevens System and build this incredible embouchure?

I too have struggled to get my low C to blossom. However it is getting much better. That and with plenty of work on my fundamentals? I've "lowered" the point where my lower register starts sounding crappy. If you ever get to chat with Wayne again? It would be great to hear of his comments regarding my questions (above)


Lionel
I’m constantly amazed with your wide breadth of expertise and knowledge of all the varied schools and methods you refer to. You always bring a wide range of methods to bear and I always get a 😄 when I see you’ve posted, but I sometimes struggle to understand the point you are trying to get across. Could you please put this in the title or body of your post to help dummies like me (small % of people) get more from your posts.
Thanks
Rod
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