Benge 3x+

[Trumpet1Ohio]

I would like comments on a nice LA Benge 3x+ that I picked recently. I have played quite a few ML horns including 3x Benges. I decided to get the larger horn as a more appropriate horn as I play lead in a big band and occasionally in a rock band or two. The new horn sounds great as I play it at home...great sound and range. However, when I play it in rehearsals or gigs, the horn feels stuffy,is difficult to blow it and is difficult to hear myself. Also, when I got it I was having trouble playing in tune. That problem seems to have faded away as I play it more.

I would appreciate information to let me know if this typical, gets better with time as I get used to it, if that's typical or I have an atypical horn.

Thank you for your input.
_________________
Ken

LA Benge 3X+

[Yamahaguy]

Hi Ken,

There could be several reasons for this including leadpipe/gap, valve wear
and/or alignment, and backbore choice.

The serial # will dictate age of the horn and might also be a factor. Some
Benge fanatics (like me) are partial to certain ranges.

Feel free to PM me and I can give you more specifics if you'd like..

Peace,
Dennis

[Brad361]

What Dennis said above.

I have an LA 3X+, I use it with a funk/rock/r&b band, and have NONE of the difficulties the OP described. I would send it to someone like Flip Oakes or Steve Winans, I’m sure those guys could address the problems.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[yourbrass]

You never really know about a horn until you take it on a job. If your problems persist during performance, sell it and get another one. They aren't rare, and many are really great trumpets.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[Brad361]

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

The issue may be related to projection. A while back there was a thread on hearing yourself in a section, and the instrument does make a difference. It would nice if someone could help let you know how you sound out front. You may sound excellent but not be able to hear yourself as well as on other horns?

[Brad361]

[shofarguy]

I once played a borrowed Benge 3X in a sports arena for Easter. It was a Burbank era horn from the 1960s. At the time, my friend was playing my 5X, since his damaged CG had come apart at a couple of solder joints.

That 3X could not be heard behind the bell in a large, amplified ensemble. The only way I knew how I sounded was to listen to my signal in the standing monitor. That was the most difficult performance situation I've ever had playing trumpet. I have no idea why that particular 3x had that problem. No other Benge I've ever played has had such poor feedback.

I have also partnered with Flip Oakes testing various Wild Thing trumpets in his shop. I've written before how certain individual trumpets seem to consolidate their sound as much as 18" out in front of the bell, while others do it back near the valves. Most trumpets consolidate their sound at the end of the bell just inside the throat or just out beyond the rim.

Keep in mind that it was always Flip playing each horn back-to-back with the same mouthpiece and that he sets the gap as part of his Total Enhancement preparation for his horns. So, the variables were minimized.

I don't know why or how this variation occurs, but it does. You may have the odd trumpet that, like that Burbank 3X, just has poor feedback. Your horn may need a valve alignment and bore correction to remove reflective anomalies that are on the inside. It may even be that a change in mouthpiece blank stye would solve your issue. I've seen that, too.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[Bogey Factory]

The LA 3x+ I had was not good for player feedback in an ensemble. It projected fine and had a lovely sound but I couldn't hear myself in a section.
_________________
Justin Shaw

[yourbrass]

[Ed Kennedy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvMmAqPMV90&list=RDXJtNjxaWOl0

On a Benge 3X+ great horns.

[Rickperon]

Hello Ken,
I seemed to have had the same problem over the years. For the majority of my playing career I've played Benge Trumpets, mainly an LA 5X, and LA CG.... at one time I owned all three at the same time. This last time that I purchased a beautiful 3X+, I bought it actually remembering that the reason I quit playing one years ago was because of just that, but thought that maybe this time it would be different. Same thing, sounded great at home, in the studio, but when playing in a section, (Big Band), I felt like I just could not produce a sound where I felt like I was blending, playing in tune or projecting.... there just seemed to be not enough feed back this side of the horn. Or playing R&B or Salsa, was even worse. Take it out the next day at home, felt great! I also have similar problems playing my Yamaha Z horn. So, I sold the 3X+, but I did have friends play it (at home) and said the horn played great. I mostly play my 5X, and occasionally the CG, for most commercial stuff I do, I like playing my Z horn with a large M.P. to play tradjazz. I think horns just simply resonate different for each individual. Oddly enough, I had the same problem with the Kanstul version 1001... if I remember correctly. Maybe it was just coincidence. If you know someone who plays a 5X or CG, maybe they would let you compare during a rehearsal or gig? Might help. Take care.

[Ozzbo]

Ken,

I suggest you take more time with the horn and play it in all types of settings especially large ensembles and venues. It might be that you have to get more accustomed to the blow of the 3X+ across the spectrum of playing possibilities. Your approach to the blow and relative resistance of the 3X+ has to be addressed in the way you play this horn as opposed to what you have been accustomed to. That is very often the case when going from ML to L, or L to M bore horns such as the 6310, 8310, Connstellations, and other older Conns.

Ozzy

[veery715]

Lack of adequate feedback in an ensemble environment can result in a horn feeling stuffy. Playing outside can cause the same problem. There is little one can do to compensate for this as the natural tendency is to want to hear what you are playing, and overblowing will make the system push back at you!

I fear you will not be able to change this and that trumpet will just frustrate you.
_________________
veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.

[Trumpet1Ohio]

Thanks for all your comments. I will reply to them after reading through all again

I appreciate you all.
_________________
Ken

LA Benge 3X+

[Trumpet1Ohio]

First if all I want to thank you for the feedback from you guys. Hearing the comments helped a lot.

I've played/owned quite a few horns. When I went to college, many years ago I was turned onto Benge trumpets by my a good friend, John Harner of Stan Kenton band. John worked at a music store then and got me a great buy for a Burbank 3x. Played and owned it until it was kind of tired. Up till then it was a tremendous horn. After that I both owned and played many horns but kept going back to Benge horns, but never that played like my old 3x.

Now, I've owned three 3x+ horns. This one, is the best one I've owned. Best sound and intonation. The one I have now is very good but is only causing me the problem I shared. I haven't had good opportunities to get a player to sit out of the band in a rehearsal or gig. Have a rehearsal later this week and will have a chance. The other thing that has come up is that Prior to purchasing it, the horn bell had been banged up and repaired. The repair was very well done and is not visible. It's only noticeable if I wrap my hand around the surface. Might that be that the repair effected the ring of the bell, etc.

Thanks for your help. Will appreciate any additional thoughts.

Yours,
_________________
Ken

LA Benge 3X+