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markwindsor Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 33 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Cornet |
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Hi all,
Just curious if anyone has any knowledge of older B&H Imperials. I've seen two recently; one from 1955 and another from 1929. They don't have the crook, but look good otherwise. I've seen some comments on the forum about them - all good - but I can't tell if the comments were about newer models or older ones.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Mark _________________ Mark |
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camelbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2002 Posts: 1397 Location: Dubai, UAE
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Boosey and Hawkes didn't get together until 1932 (I think) so anything prior to that will likely be from either Hawkes or Boosey. Prior to 1962 there was no standardised pitch in the brass band world and some instruments were either standard high pitch or standard low pitch, so be very careful with older cornets. They used a tuning shank between the mouthpiece and the lead pipe to adjust for this but at best it was a compromise. After the mid 60s standard low pitch became the norm and you'll find most of us play Imperials that were made from then until the end of production in 1974/1975. I think you'll find most of them (if not all) have shepherds crooks although I do stand to be corrected.
They're fantastic little cornets, very distinctly brass band and are still in use by younger players playing 2nd or 3rd. They've probably seen their day as front bench instruments as they're medium bore and just don't have the ooomph required for modern solo cornet playing but they have a very sweet sound.
Regards,
Trevor |
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DN Regular Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Thank God for the IMPERIAL CORNETS.
I am now an professional trumpet player living in Australia, and my first cornet at age 7 was an Imperial in the Box Hill Salvation Army Band.. I then went onto a sovereign which my father bought for me at 12. Now 37, I tend to use the cornet more on laid back jazz gigs, if I ever have one.
Kosicup mouthpieces were also great for beginners. They're like trying to play with a bucket over your face.
Q. How do you make 1 million out of jazz.
A. Start with 2 million.
Regards
Dave Newdick |
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laurie Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 648 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Gday Dave
There must be a lot of Australian players who started out on Imperial cornets! I started out in Brass bands in Sydney and my first Cornet was an imp. I bought one last year, brand new unused stock in mint condition, Dont play it much, more of a nostalgia thing. There must be a lot of old imps sitting in brass band store rooms..............Either that or they have all been worn out by junior players.
Cheers
Laurie |
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riffi1 Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 171 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Guys
I started on an old high pitch Besson Class A in 1965 and when my band converted to low pitch in 1970 my parents bought me a shiny new Imperial as my 10th birthday present. I still have it, it still plays perfectly (looks almost new) and gets used for marching and some outdoors jobs. As Laurie says they are great for section work but a little lacking against newer and larger bore horns for lead playing. Having said that, the band I play is a B grade and most of the section are young guys who don't own a cornet and they still use band owned Imperials, even the front line players. We have 3 bands A,B and D/junior and of course the best of the band instruments get allocateed to the A grade band. I have recently bought myself a new Getzen 3850 custom and really feel the difference. I did play a band owned round stamp sovereign for a long time and still reckon that was the best cornet ever made.
For concert band work I own a selection of Conn, Olds and Bach long model cornets which seem to blend better in that ensemble but would probably get me booted out of the brass band if I dared show up with one to rehearsal
If you can pick up an Imperiela at a reasonable price you won't be disappointed.
cheers
Rod _________________ So many horns...so little time
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camelbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2002 Posts: 1397 Location: Dubai, UAE
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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This may be a unique thread...4 Aussies in a row!! Including myself, of course.
Regards,
Trevor |
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laurie Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 648 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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There must be a few more Aussies out there, and most would have some experience with those old imps. Cmon fellas, were are you all. Got to be more than 4...
Cheers
Laurie |
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lh Claude Gordon Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Geez....
OZ, Dubai, and Texas.... never thought I'd see the day! I teach with a guy from Adelaide. Can I play too?
I bought a late 60's Imp off EBay several years ago, and absolutely love it! I tend to play mostly big open-feeling instruments, and you are right, Trevor. Muscling this little one about makes for a real challenge. Learning to let it play within it's rules works a lot better. With that said, I've found success varying the punch/power/intensity using the following Warburton mouthpieces with it...
5BC/BC10 for blending/band/ensemble applications
5MD/KT* for Dixieland and Air and Variations-style cornet solos
For the type of playing that I do, this little Imp suits me just fine!
Cheers _________________ Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913 |
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riffi1 Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 171 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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camelbrass wrote: | This may be a unique thread...4 Aussies in a row!! Including myself, of course.
Regards,
Trevor |
Jeez guys... you made me feel all patriotic Now I'll have to change my avatar to something Australian.
It may seem odd to our American bretheren but for those of growing up in Oz bands during the 50's to 70's we pretty much only saw one brand of instrument... Boosey & Hawkes which is now defunct and has reverted back to the original firm of Besson.
cheers
Rod _________________ So many horns...so little time
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DN Regular Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: |
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I actually reccomend all beginners to start on cornet under the age of about 8 or 9. This tends to counteract common embouchure problems due to balance of weight on the trumpet and kids not learning with proper pivot system basis.
How many young trumpet players end up looking like clarinet players by resting the bell on their knees and playing incredibly downstream.
My 3 year old already has his own AMARTI cornet (Cheap as crap so he can throw it on floor when he wants.), however I would really like to know where I can get hold of some reasonable 2nd hand imperials for young beginners.
Deep mouthpieces should also be encouraged at a young age.
Go AUSSIES. |
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billoshea@robertjnixon.co New Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2019 Posts: 2
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:33 pm Post subject: BOOSEY AND HAWKES CORNETS |
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I play a Boosey and Hawkes Regent cornet it is over 40 years old but still makes a great sound. I have had it serviced and it looks like brand new .
Bill O'Shea
Melbourne Australia |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:53 am Post subject: |
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You are reacting to zombie posts. |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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You got it about the zombies.
A B&H imperial cornet is god? Really? It's like trying to an expanded polystyrene trumpet. The response of a zombie. The intonation of something quite long past this life. Thin, dull little sound.
It may have been acceptable in days gone past (fortunately) but they are only good as lamp shades or for footy practice. (which I prefer to use them for. I pride myself on literacy, which it would drain away)
And those Kosicup mouthpieces? Tiny, nasty things. Did I mention how I used to seed shipwrecks with junk mouthpieces for other divers to find? Even the wreck rats ignore these and leave them to swim with the fishes...
Get a far better instrument, like an Olds, Yamaha, etc.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Molefsky New Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2019 Posts: 1
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | You got it about the zombies.
A B&H imperial cornet is god? Really? It's like trying to an expanded polystyrene trumpet. The response of a zombie. The intonation of something quite long past this life. Thin, dull little sound.
It may have been acceptable in days gone past (fortunately) but they are only good as lamp shades or for footy practice. (which I prefer to use them for. I pride myself on literacy, which it would drain away)
And those Kosicup mouthpieces? Tiny, nasty things. Did I mention how I used to seed shipwrecks with junk mouthpieces for other divers to find? Even the wreck rats ignore these and leave them to swim with the fishes...
Get a far better instrument, like an Olds, Yamaha, etc.
cheers
Andy |
Yikes, a bit harsh don't you think? I wouldn't wander into a brass band rehearsal with /any/ variety of Olds in hand, and I say that as someone who uses an Olds in the studio.
The Imps are tanks even if outdated. Like the early posts in this thread, they just won't die... |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: |
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I think I was rather gentle, and quite accurate. Terrible instruments that are not worth it today. _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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