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| B&H 400 Cornet (made by Amati) worth fixing up? |
| Yes, good beginner horn, but don't spend too much on it. |
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| Yes, just enough to make it playable though. |
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| No, don't bother, it is just a nice wall-hanger. |
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| Total Votes : 7 |
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hartleymartin
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Sydney, Australia
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 Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:15 am Post subject: B&H400 Cornet - worth repairing? |
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Hi everyone. I am a beginner trumpet/cornet player. I acquired a B&H 400 Cornet, silver-plated, made by Amati for Boosey & Hawkes. It plays just fine after a good clean (hot bath) and fresh valve oil. The bell was a little misshapen but I've been able to correct the worst of it with a little skill and some forceful fingers.
The only things wrong with it otherwise are the tuning slide had seized on the bottom of the lead tube and the two bottom stays have broken off and are missing. (Oh, and the tuning slide stop nut disappeared, but that is a cheap enough replacement part).
I was wondering it if was worth spending any money on it to have new stays soldered on and the tuning slide freed up, or if I should just save my $$$ on a better instrument. I tried some light valve oil on the slide, and soaking the lead pipe with WD40, but nothing seems to shift it so far.
At the moment I am using an old Kosikup mouthpiece since it has a wider rim which I find more comfortable, but I could probably get used to the supplied 7C Cornet mouthpiece.
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Terrible horn, don't spend any money. |
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TKSop
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:05 am Post subject: |
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As wasteful as it sounds... no, don't spent any money on it.
Even in top condition they play very poorly, it's just not worth the cost to get it playing IMHO. |
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hartleymartin
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:21 am Post subject: |
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By the sound of it, I bought an expensive second-hand cornet case.
If it isn't something worth having repaired, I may just use it for soldering practice, though I really would like to get that tuning slide to move.
Is it even worth keeping as a beginner instrument? I'm thinking of get kids to have a blow, learn to play a couple of tunes then get themselves a nicer horn?
Otherwise, I may have to cut my losses and search for an old B&H Imperial. It would be nice to actually have something made in England.
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Cornets are very cheap, I suppose worldwide. Only a few want to be seen with such a horn. |
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hartleymartin
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | Cornets are very cheap, I suppose worldwide. Only a few want to be seen with such a horn. |
Good second-hand ones are hard to find here in Australia. Easier to get a brand new Cornet. Cheap trumpets are everywhere, but I do want a Cornet.
Any suggestions on the seized tuning slide?
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Andy Del
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| hartleymartin wrote: | By the sound of it, I bought an expensive second-hand cornet case.
If it isn't something worth having repaired, I may just use it for soldering practice, though I really would like to get that tuning slide to move.
Is it even worth keeping as a beginner instrument? I'm thinking of get kids to have a blow, learn to play a couple of tunes then get themselves a nicer horn?
Otherwise, I may have to cut my losses and search for an old B&H Imperial. It would be nice to actually have something made in England. |
I wouldn't even bother with the case. Seriously, a student needs a GOOD instrument, not a pile of junk to try to learn on, The easiest thing to do with this is write off the $$ and chuck it. You could chat to Bazz at southern cross divers and ask him to scuttle it on a wreck for divers to find and get all hot and bothered with.
As far as finding an English made cornet? Why make life hard? Just get a good cornet and forget all the BS about Boosey and Hawkes and British instruments. The factory made ones are essentially junk, play poorly and even Sovereign instruments are so unpleasant to play it's just not worth the bother. Come over and play my Schilke or Olds recording and see what a real cornet plays like!
Today, as much as I hate to say it, your best bet will be either a second hand Yamaha or get a Carol Brass from Sax & Woodwind. Tell 'em I sent you and they may not rip you off! Or maybe not mention me... they must be sick of my calling their BS.
cheers
Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes... |
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trumpetmike
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 11315
Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Del wrote: | As far as finding an English made cornet? Why make life hard? Just get a good cornet and forget all the BS about Boosey and Hawkes and British instruments. The factory made ones are essentially junk, play poorly and even Sovereign instruments are so unpleasant to play it's just not worth the bother. Come over and play my Schilke or Olds recording and see what a real cornet plays like!
Today, as much as I hate to say it, your best bet will be either a second hand Yamaha or get a Carol Brass from Sax & Woodwind. Tell 'em I sent you and they may not rip you off! Or maybe not mention me... they must be sick of my calling their BS.
cheers
Andy |
Generally agree with this.
A good (old!) Sovereign can be an instrument of rare beauty to play, but so many of them (especially just before the most recent takeover) are truly hideous - would never want to buy one without playing it first.
A second hand Yamaha student cornet is a much better option if you can find one.
If you can get the B&H (Amati) 400 working, it could be useful for allowing a student to find out if they can make a noise on an instrument, but for learning how to play - really don't bother.
(if you want an idea of how little they were thought of - Boosey & Hawkes were in legal discussions for many years trying to stop Amati using "B&H" on that instrument!) |
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hartleymartin
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Well, at least I got a hard case and a spare 7C mouthpiece out of the deal. I've taken the opportunity to break out my pencil gas-torch to see if I can sort out the stuck main tuning slide and have a go at repairing the broken solder joins myself.
The gas torch did not release the stuck slide. It did undo one of the other solder joins, so I've taken the opportunity to soak the whole lot in a bath of WD40 thinned slightly with a drop of alcohol.
I've got my eye on a 2nd hand B&H Imperial, a Jupiter and a Yamaha Cornet and will wait and see how it all pans out.
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hartleymartin
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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An overnight bath in WD40 has freed up the slide and a few minutes work with the pencil gas torch has re-attached it. Just have to find some nickel-silver or brass rod and some suitable solder and flux.
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Martin Hartley |
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hartleymartin
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Czech Made for Boosey and Hawkes. Serial number indicates made in 1994.
I have read elsewhere that the B&H400 models were made by a number of different manufacturers and the Czech made ones were generally better, but they are still pretty much an inferior instrument.
I'll be digging through my model train spares/scraps for some 3mm or 4mm brass rod and I think I have some silver solder somewhere, or need to buy some more soon anyway, so the only real $$$ I'll be spending is a couple for the 3rd valve slide nut.
I'll probably keep it as a spare instrument for any kid who wants to have a try blowing a horn. Whilst I am not a brass teacher, I do instruct a couple of cadet bands. One is Fife & Drum, the other is brass.
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