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Bach New york 7 vs 190 37


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Aurel
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Joined: 02 Aug 2019
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Location: Lyon, France

PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:41 am    Post subject: Bach New york 7 vs 190 37 Reply with quote

Hello everyone !
First of all this is my very first thread here, my english is not perfect, I am a french dude trying my best, so all apologies in advance


I recently decided that it was time to change my Bb trumpet, a Bach 72*.
I still like this configuration, matches the way I play quite well but mine is just getting too old, the sound is dull and the high register is awfully difficult.

I'm therefore looking for a new horn.

I play mostly classical music, I'm studying in a big conservatory in France but I aspire to play in a professional symphonic orchestra.

I will only stick to bach, I played yamaha for years, it's not my cup of tea anymore, and for orchestra Bach seems like a solid value, plus there is not a lot of brands provided in France compared to what you have in the us.
Most people never heard of Benge, King, Kanstull and the Schilke players are viewed as weirdos.

So I tried many trumpets, I even went to Thomann in germany.

The 19037 is really what I liked the most,perhaps the best horn I ever tried, but I was a bit upset that I couldn't find a new york 7 to try, as you all seem to think it's a terrific horn.

So my question is, how do both instruments compare ?


To give you a vague idea of my taste, I like open and free blowing instruments

In C, I play a 229 in raw brass with a 7 reversed leadpipe.
In Bb I used to play 72* but I like 37 too eventhough it's a bit different from what I'm used to. Also I don't like 43 at all, feels too tight for me.


Thank you
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, the 72* was/is favored by lead and commercial players. With the 43 pipe it is very open and the upper register excellent. Studio musicians like Bernie Glow, Al Stewart, and Danny Stiles all played the *72. Also Allen Vizzutti (before Yamaha) and Wayne Bergeron (before Kanstul and Yamaha) played the 72*.

The overwhelming consensus with "legit" players is the 37. I had a 19037 for a while and it is a terrific horn. I'm primarily a jazz/commercial player now so I found something which suits me better.

I can't comment on the 7/7, no experience with it.
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giakara
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also give a try to Artisan model , great reviews from the symphony guys.

Regards
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Aurel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed 72* is a very good horn for commercial, but I also know plenty of professional who use 72* and 43 for legit use and until then nobody told me that my sound or my instrument wasn't appropriate for symphonic orchestra.
However by playing a 37 I can understand why it is so popular for symphonic compared to the 72*.

I tried the artisan very briefly, and I liked the tone but some people say it is not adequate for orchestra playing.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not in disagreement about he sound of the 72*. It;s a very solid sound and excellent for what it is intended to be but it is not an "exciting"sound. So, where does that leave you in terms of choices?

The New York 7 is an excellent horn. If I were to buy a new Bach that would be my first choice. Keep in mind, however, that I'm an improvisational jazz soloist. The New York 7 may or may not be the best choice for the symphonic player.

The 37 will give you a brighter sound than the 72. However, if you want an even bigger difference (in terms of brightness) try the 43.

From a "blending" standpoint the 43 may not work as well for you as the 37 in a symphonic setting. You just have o test it. Every player is different. I might get a brighter sound on a 37 that you get on a 43. So, you have to listen and see how things work out for you.

I will just say that I love the sound and responsiveness of the New York 7. It would be a good choice for me considering what I do.
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Aurel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried the 43 bell and it's definitely not made for me, I know it work well for classical, half my classmates play 43, the other half 37.
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jazzvuu
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are studying with a teacher at the conservatory, why not ask he or she for help on finding a new horn that would be good for you.
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TrumpetTAC
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, the NY 7/7 is a very open horn, but it also has a big, dark sound for me. It works great as a symphonic horn and you can open it up for lead as well.
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MrOlds
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played a NY7 for years. Loved it. With the right mouthpiece you can get a reasonably good sound for many things. But it’s not the optimal sound for a large orchestra. Not enough density or weight to the sound.

For what you say you want to do I’d look for a regular weight Bach 37. Either a 180 or 190.
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Aurel
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your responses, my teachers are not really into material and stuff, they are endorsed by Stomvi, B&S, and they would probably say something like «try and figure out by yourself.»
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stephan
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I plan to sell my Artisan.
Send me a p.m. if you are interested.
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Last edited by stephan on Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although there are exceptions to everything I don't think it likely that a player would be criticized for playing a Bach Strad Model 37 in an orchestral setting. I doubt that you'd see the NY7 in any high level orchestra today.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Van Laar B4 is another possibility.
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Aurel
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried van laar years ago, B4 seems to be based on the mount vernon bachs so it might be something I could give a try.
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improver
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you say 7/7 do you mean 7 pipe and 7 bell? The NYs were 7 pipe 37 bell which I have and probably the best Bach ever made. Mine plays so easy with 7 pipe free blowing and darker. But it's Mpc sensetive. Mine works best with 7c.
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I advise you not to make a choice until you have tried both horns side by side in order to best compare. Good luck!
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Aurel
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm talking about the 180S77 so with a 7 leap pipe and a 7 bell.

I thought that the old New york 7 from the 30's had the same configuration since 7bell was the standard back then.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aurel wrote:
I'm talking about the 180S77 so with a 7 leap pipe and a 7 bell.

I thought that the old New york 7 from the 30's had the same configuration since 7bell was the standard back then.


I've played both a 1930 NY 7/7 and a modern 180S7/7. I cannot agree with the poster that says that the 7/7 doesn't have a dense core. It's a huge, dark, dense core, but the frequency balance has its peaks in a lower band than the 37 bell produces. It also has a freer blow and more flexible slotting that any 37 I've played.

So, for most of the symphonic work I listen to, the 190/37 is probably more the sound that is expected. But the 180-7/7 (along with the ML Commercial) is my favorite Bach.
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Aurel
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you all seem to say that the 37 is more adapted to the symphonic work, whereas the NY 7 is more of a polyvalent horn.

My question is, would the NY 7 have enough projection and brightness to still work in orchestra ?
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know in the US, the C trumpet is the orchestral trumpet of choice. I thought it was the same in France.

Has it changed?
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