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casivake718
Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:33 pm Post subject: Modifying my Selmer Paris |
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| I would like to modify my Selmer Paris from the 60's. It currently needs a new leadpipe and tuning side as the mouthpiece receiver is worn out and the tuning slide has a leak. I was wondering what leadpipe to get. I was thinking a Bach Strad 180 43. Is it true that a 43 has a tight blow? Personally, that's how I like it. As for the tuning slide, I feel like a Bach 180M .453 would give it a tight blow. I am open to suggestions as I've never modified any of my trumpets. This is my 2nd personal horn. |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Modifying my Selmer Paris |
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| casivake718 wrote: | | I was wondering what leadpipe to get. I was thinking a Bach Strad 180 43. Is it true that a 43 has a tight blow? Personally, that's how I like it. As for the tuning slide, I feel like a Bach 180M .453 would give it a tight blow. I am open to suggestions as I've never modified any of my trumpets. This is my 2nd personal horn. |
You may be thinking of the Bach 44 pipe. That is the one stock pipe which comes in Nickel, not yellow brass. Not knowing your model of 60s Selmer, I can't say whether any of these Bach's would be a good fit, but Selmer was a company to frequently make use of Nickle and/or Sterling Silver leadpipes, to avoid the possibility of red rot, so there's something that seems to make sense about using the 44.
43 is actually a more open blow than the standard 25. The tightest standard offering from Bach is the 6, which may have been the inspiration for Yamaha's Bobby Shew "Z" series trumpets.
Now, once you get to the tuning slide, this is where you'd need to get a good tech on your side - firstly, they'd need to marry the lower tuning slide leg to your Selmer, and it's unlikely that the stock Bach (ML bore, M bore, or anything else) will have a workable Outer Diameter measurement to fit, let alone inner diameter to acoustically complement the rest of the horn.
Just a quick shout-out to MK Drawing, whose versions of the above-mentioned Bach pipes typically out perform OEM parts from Bach, plus, unless you find a vendor with Bach parts in-stock, their back order timing can be a LONG wait, while MK does a very reasonable turn-around.
Back in HS I changed my stock Bach 25 pipe for a 43, seeking out the opposite of what you mentioned - I wanted things opened up - and was satisfied. Currently, my go-to Bb for most all-around use is a Frankenhorn with an MK tuning slide and valve slides, and I wholeheartedly recommend their products.
A number of wonderful brass techs contribute to this page, and, depending on your location, budget, and dreams for this horn, you may want to send the instrument out, describe your goals, and then leave it to the professionals!
Happy practicing,
-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8335
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Modifying my Selmer Paris |
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| casivake718 wrote: | | I would like to modify my Selmer Paris from the 60's. It currently needs a new leadpipe and tuning side as the mouthpiece receiver is worn out and the tuning slide has a leak. I was wondering what leadpipe to get. |
Selmer Paris made a number of horns. What kind and model of horn is it?
| casivake718 wrote: | | I was thinking a Bach Strad 180 43. Is it true that a 43 has a tight blow? Personally, that's how I like it. |
I have not found that the 43 feels very tight to me, it's actually more open than a 25, in my experience/opinion.
| casivake718 wrote: | | As for the tuning slide, I feel like a Bach 180M .453 would give it a tight blow. I am open to suggestions as I've never modified any of my trumpets. This is my 2nd personal horn. |
I don't have suggestions for tunings slides. I'm sure people will have mod suggestions, though.
I will ask why are you considering putting Bach parts on your Selmer? Do you want it to play like a Bach?
I personally have a Radial and I think I would explore alternatives to Bach leadpipes for it if I had to. It doesn't play like a Bach 37, which is one reason I like it.
I would explore some leadpipes from MK Drawing or Josh Landress as well.
Two other points:
- Leadpipes can be patched, often. Not pretty, but does keep the original up and running.
- Selmers usually had a nickel silver leadpipe to resist corrosion. I'm surprised that you have an issue, a little.
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:28 am Post subject: |
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While Selmer bought Bach in 1962, it is a mistake to assume that parts designed for Bach instruments will work well on a Selmer. They are two completely separate design heritages, and the Bach pipes are ill suited to a French trumpet application in my opinion (and while it is a French company, I am speaking more to the French style of trumpet). Your odds would be better trying some of the Kanstul pipes designed by Zig and Byron, if replacement is really unavoidable.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
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casivake718
Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| My horn is a Henri Selmer Paris K modified. I personally love the way a Bach trumpet plays. The problem with the leadpipe is that the mouthpiece receiver is loose and doesn't hold the mouthpiece tight, and with the tuning slide, the spit valve spring keeps breaking, since it is a small spring and I would like to just change it entirely. I would look into those other manufacturers. |
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Brassnose
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: |
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As some already pointed out: I do not think Bach and Selmer parts match. Also, the 43 Bach pipe is more open than the standard unmarked pipe. My 43 Strad had a standard pipe for 25 years and after dying from red rot I had a 43 pipe put on. Much less restrictive and quite a bit darker, too.
My suggestion would be to talk to a professional tech; mine is able to customize lead pipes and tuning slides. This may be more straightforward than picking a random leadpipe from a catalogue and hoping it will work.
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jhatpro
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Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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I recommend you call Steve Winans and ask about his custom pipes.
http://www.doctorvalve.com/
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
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Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8335
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| casivake718 wrote: | | My horn is a Henri Selmer Paris K modified. I personally love the way a Bach trumpet plays. The problem with the leadpipe is that the mouthpiece receiver is loose and doesn't hold the mouthpiece tight, and with the tuning slide, the spit valve spring keeps breaking, since it is a small spring and I would like to just change it entirely. I would look into those other manufacturers. |
These seem like repair issues rather than replacement issues. A good repair tech could fix the loose receiver. If you don't like the functionality of the spit valve, you could have it replaced with a better/bigger one or put an Amado, Pollard, or something like that one there.
Replacing the leadpipe because the receiver is loose is like replacing the engine on a car because it isn't shifting properly.
If you really love they way Bachs play, you should probably just get one.
If you're dead set on customizing/tweaking your Selmer, then I would explore those custom options that have been mentioned. However, keep the original slide and pipe. Those instruments and parts aren't made anymore and it would be a shame to toss them. If you ever sell your horn, the next owner might want them. At the very least I'm sure someone out there is looking for those kind of parts.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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