Want a brand new Bach Strad for cheap??

tulsaband · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:27 am Post subject:

I'd say that the case looks like a much better copy than the actual copy of the horn on the Artisan! You'd have to not ever seen these horns before to be fooled by these copies. They look like cheap-o!!!

Ceth Barnett
www.tulsaband.com
918.663.3210

KennyR · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:40 pm Post subject: Bach strad knockoff Lamps

First I heard of it was some [one] on Youtube has a video showing the fake piece of crap and he says if you cannot afford a real one then buy this piece of junk. My comment was to save his money and buy real one either used or new. I've had my Model 37 for 45 years and it still plays wonderfully. When it is built right and taken care of it will last for a lifetime. You could take the fake one and make a lamp out of it . If someone gave me one I would do that but I am not paying for one.

Edited by Moderators - Name calling is not permitted on the TH. Do refrain.

GGH · New Member Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Posts: 6

Concerning Bach trumpets in China - Most Bach trumpets are made in China ( beginner and intermediates) have been for years. Steinway bought Selmer Bach some years ago and then got grabbed by a hedge fund _ Paulsen. He is trying or has sold them to Poly Corp , a Chines government division. The Chinese have all the tools and designs. I think we may eventually find that the fake Strads are the real thing. I am starting to think Elkhart is a warehouse - never been there but maybe someone in the area could drive by for fun. I have heard that you now have to audition several Strads to get a good one. I can't believe that a Strad hasn't been play tested if a craftsman made it. I think the customer at the US store is the first guy to put a mouthpiece in it.
If the Chinese don't/haven't bought them, vintage( 2019 models)Strads are going to go way up in price soon.

LittleRusty · Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:52 pm Post subject:

Brad361 · Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:57 pm Post subject:

TrumpetMD · Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:34 pm Post subject:

fredo · Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:08 am Post subject:

Kirk is back !!!

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Frederic FELTZ
Yamaha XENO 2 8335 S
Lotus 3L brass

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441

TrumpetMD · Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:03 am Post subject:

connicalman · Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:11 am Post subject:

a friend of mine went to China and returned with a $240 Bach 190.

It makes for a good prop.

It was hard to tell here that she got took, because she thought she got me a great deal. So I used it as best I could when I visit, and eventually had her - a complete novice - A/B that one with my 1978 180/37.

She cried, I bought dinner, all was well. I still use it to practice at her place, but she prefers the sound of the cornet with her piano.
_________________
kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...

Brad361 · Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject:

GGH · New Member Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Posts: 6

The trumpet business has been having a hard time for year and years. Bach got rid of its craftsman back in the 1990s I believe. Steinway bought most of the nonboutique firms and Paulsen ( hedgefund) goggled them up and is or has sold them to China (Poly Group). Jupiter and Yamaha and several European makers use China alot - parts, assembly, whole trumpet. Free Trade is the wave of the future and recent past. How many "USA" trumpets made in China say "Made in USA". The Yamahas say "Made in Japan" in English no less. Staying just ahead of bankruptcy and stockholders makes strange bed fellows.
Is the Bach 300 etc junk. The USA ads give them good press.

PS I happened across a Artisan and all the other pro models.some years ago that was on Amazon. About $250 if I remember right. I jumped and bought one. Maybe some of you saw the ad. Amazon cancelled my order immediately and took down the ad. I thought they screwed up and were posting the wholesale price from Bach. Now I suspect an alternative may be that I was seeing Chinese trumpets for sale. Amazon wouldn't give me an answer. Any answer they gave me would have sucked I guess. Any of you know the wholesale price for any of the complete lineup of Strads in the late 1990s. $250 would have been quite high for a Chinese product that many years ago.

Brad361 · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:55 am Post subject:

So, you’re referring to THESE guys?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Poly_Group

Bach “got rid of it’s craftsmen”?? So who is building the instruments now? Somehow I don’t think you can pay someone who is unskilled to build a quality, or even just marginal brass instrument.

I don’t know, there are a few guys here with actual direct contact to Bach/Selmer, maybe some of them will comment. This sounds like a whole bunch of black helicopter/trilateral commission stuff to me.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441

Anyone who read the link I posted earlier would know that many of the workers at Bach have been there for decades - that wouldn't be the case if they were "got rid of". If you read that piece you would also know that I stood in Elkhart <2 years ago watching TR-300 bells being made for shipment to Eastlake. They are unusually fine instruments for their price point. Finally, anyone who read that piece would be aware of the substantial investment Paulson has made in Bach Elkhart INSTEAD of selling off the assets.

Why is it the moderators jump all over the slightest hint of anything less than rule-correct (didn't want to say PC there) where any other maker is concerned, but when someone bashes Bach or the skilled and dedicated workforce there, they are fine with it?
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:18 am Post subject:

Brad361 · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:14 am Post subject:

Dutch Guy · Regular Member Joined: 22 Aug 2019 Posts: 28

This is really bad. Of course, if you KNOW that you're buying them cheap from ali or ebay, you KNOW that they are not the real thing. Many people just want to see whether they are any good or not, and buy them just for fun. Buying them for yourself is one thing, but the bad part comes after.

At one point, all those are going to be sold 2nd hand, probably through some local or national website (ebay for example, but most countries have their own similar website). And now problems start, because either the seller is honest and says is is a fake, or he sells it as if it were real. Only he knows the truth. If he sells it as fake, it will be bought by another person like him/here to try as 'just for fun', OR, someone who wants to make a profit, and will sell it as if it were real. And from that point on, these start flooding the market, without the actual receipts from real stores, from people that already got them second hand. Only those that have owned one can really tell the difference, and even then it's hard sometimes.

The ones that fall for it are the ones that haven't owned a Bach before, kids looking for their first pro horn, parents looking for their kids, musicians that are not into the internet and so on. and the cycle continues.

People often ask me to help them with purchasing trumpets and trombones, because they don't really know anything about other brands, prices and so on. For the last year or so, I have actively recommended to NOT buy Bach stradivarius trumpets anymore without official receipts of a store in this country. There are just too many fakes.

GGH · New Member Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Posts: 6

Wikipedia - strike from 2006 to 2009 - replacement workers hired - after strike only 1/3 of workers returned.
One poster said he was worried about the quality of Strads his students used - did he suspect they were fakes or made by replacement workers.
The beginner Yamahas and Jupiters I believe are all made in their Chinese factories. If I remember the TR300s ( and other models) are all Chinese.
One person said " it doesn't matter where is't made but who it's made for" - referring to Yamahas.
From the Chinese sites I have been able to calculate that a trumpet is not very expensive to make. A really good real Chinese trumpet sells for from $70 to $1000 depending on quantity bought. If you buy in bulk they cost $70 each. That means the max build cost is $70 ( I bet about $35 per horn).
Paulsen, the last I heard,was trying to spruce the firm up so he could sell it.

kevin_soda · Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:01 pm Post subject:

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441

To say that all TR-300s are made in China is a bald faced lie.

In 2009, they were made there for less than a year. After the strike, with an Elkhart workforce comprised of a little more than 50% returning workers (read the Elkhart Truth story cited in Wikipedia, or simply quote the entire statement I wrote there) TR-300 production returned to the US, where it had been previously.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20