Leadpipe Question

[BBTP]

Hello Everyone!!

On a Bach, which lead pipe is more open, the 25-0 or the reversed set up? With a 72 bell would the reversed lead pipe or the 25-0 bet a more open set up?


Thanks!!

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello,
I can't say much about the 25 or 25-O pipe, but the reversed pipe, of any number, will loosen the slots in my opinion. That may give a feeling of more openness, or not. The reverse pipe changes the nodal point/gap, further down the pipe. People like me, who have played Schilke for years, have gotten accustomed to that feel and find it uncomfortable to play a regular piped Bach. To me, a 37 feels stuffy because of that. Most people don't have that same opinion, they like the added resistance to blow against. It may be tough finding the right horn to try, without taking a major trip to a well-stocked shop. You just might have to buy a few pipes, if you already have the 72, and experiment away. you will be an expert in your field. Since you like the 72 bell, you might take a trip to Chicago and try a Schilke B1.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[Danbassin]

I think, in general terms, the 25-O is more "O"pen than the 25LR. Also add to this that the typical Bach reversed pipe comes standard as lightweight, so there are all sorts of additional variables at play, there.

In terms of marrying to a 72 bell, the old lead players' delight was a 72/43, and that is a tried-and-true complement. Both the 7 and 43 pipes play more open than the 25 taper. While not being as OPEN as the "O" they do have a different blow with different harmonics than that of the 25 shape.

+1 to each of the good points made above, and while your question is a really good one, it'll be hard to get an objective response to a question of subjective apples and...pears and crabapples and peaches.

What are your musical goals? Do you have any nearby shops where you could do one of those temporary leadpipe hacks to play with your horn and tuning slide without removing/soldering? Another point about the reversed set-up is not only are you talking about a change in the 'leader pipe' (to use Ren Schilke's terminology) but also the tuning slide, as well.

If the goal is a wide open pipe that'll work great with your bell and the Bach chassis, there are tons of aftermarket options not from Bach, which may also fit the bill.

Happy practicing, and good luck on the front end safari!

-DB
_________________
Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD

[lipshurt]

i would say that the 25-0 would be more open than the 25R. Its has a bigger venturi. If the 25R feels more open its because of factors after the leadpipe.

In 1986 Lloyd Filio told me absolutely that the following points are true and people are filled with all kinds of folk tales and such contrary to the these points:
1) the 25 and 43 pipes are made on the same mandrel. Same taper, same exact shape, but the 43 pipe is cut off on the small end 1/4 inch farther down the mandrel. That makes the pipe bigger at every point except the venturi which is "set" after the assembly of the whole horn.

2) the 25-0 is a regular cut 25 pipe that is opened more than a regular 25 at the small end. (He did not tell me how much, it would be easy to check if you have a few examples of each) and the 25-0 is smaller and feels smaller than the 43.

3) the 25A is not for "Adelstien" or any other player. The 25A is longer than a 25C pipe, feels smaller because the big end takes longer to get to the bore size of the horn, and has better intonation than the 25c pipe.


*** right now i'm for some reason hazy on the next two points they be switched. I can check when i get home****

4) the 25H pipe is not for " Herseth", and it is opened at the small end, and wrapped at the big end with another ferule to graduate the O.D to fit into the upper/outer tuning slide tube. (I think the small end is usually .351 which is big)

5) the 25C pipe is a Bb 25 pipe cut shorter and then the big end is expanded to fit the outer/upper slide tube. The expansion is about one inch long.

6) the 25S pipe is not for "Schlueter". It is a plain full length Bb 25 pipe, and has a very short upper tuning slide leg because of that. Feels the smallest and better intonation.
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[BBTP]

i have played the 72/43 combo, Also the 72/43r and they were not exactly the right fit for me as they were too big/open for me.. I also played the 72/25R and that felt too “tight” in the upper register and in the upper register it was piercing and lacked core/body to the sound. That is why I was wondering if a stock 72/25-O would be my horn. The other component not taken into account with his equation is the LT model of the 72/25-O..Any one play that combination?

[chef8489]

I loved the 72/43 when I had a chance to try it out, but was using a lr180s72 with a 25 reverse pipe for quite some time. I really love my sound on the 72 and even the lr that is a bit more open than the standard 25.

[yourbrass]

Lipshurt is correct in saying the 250 is more open than the 25LR.

I did a custom rebuild of a Martin Committee LB in which I attempted to solve the blow and intonation problems which I find are often in that model. The parts of the front section of the instrument were replaced with new parts.

I had the choice of a 25LR or a 43LR pipe for the job, and the 25LR had enough resisitance to make the horn easy to play. The 43LR was too large, and the blow felt out-of-control.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/