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JL New Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2019 Posts: 5
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:46 pm Post subject: Buying Trumpet From Europe Or Australia |
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Hello, I've been surfing about, reading, learning, and shopping for a trumpet.
Something I've come upon are places that sell some trumpets at much lower cost than in the U.S.
For example, this store in Austrailia has Yamaha trumpets for nearly half the price as in the U.S.
https://www.bettermusic.com.au/advancedsearch/result/index/?cat=68&q=trumpet&p=2
Any idea why? I also saw a couple of places on Amazon that have Yamaha trumpets for a lot cheaper, I think they are located in Japan. But apparently they aren't authorized dealers, so I don't know where they get them or what the deal is. But these other places seem to be authorized.
Thanks for any info. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9195 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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I bought a new Schilke from Thomann in Germany at a lower-than-U.S. price and it was delivered without a problem.
Regarding prices, be careful that you are only looking at a partial price of the item itself and not taking into account that the total may include import and VAT taxes, as well. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1894
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:19 am Post subject: |
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No import charges were chsrged on the Schilke because it is an American made product. If you are buyin g something foreign made then expect to pay import duties. |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Buying Trumpet From Europe Or Australia |
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JL wrote: | Hello, I've been surfing about, reading, learning, and shopping for a trumpet.
Something I've come upon are places that sell some trumpets at much lower cost than in the U.S.
For example, this store in Austrailia has Yamaha trumpets for nearly half the price as in the U.S.
https://www.bettermusic.com.au/advancedsearch/result/index/?cat=68&q=trumpet&p=2
Any idea why? I also saw a couple of places on Amazon that have Yamaha trumpets for a lot cheaper, I think they are located in Japan. But apparently they aren't authorized dealers, so I don't know where they get them or what the deal is. But these other places seem to be authorized.
Thanks for any info. |
Yamaha has a pretty close relationship with Australia. I'm not sure what exactly it is or why but retail on Yamaha is definitely waaay lower than the US or EU. There might be some trade arrangements between Japan an Aus.
I suggest seeing if you can order from
www.ozwinds.com.au
They are definitely an authorised retailer.
They're probably the biggest music instrument retailer we have left in Australia, the others went bust in quick succession about 7-8 years ago. They also generally have the biggest range and the cheapest prices. However, if they are not able to export with the listed prices, you might then want to try one of the smaller stores which will probably charge a bit more but will likely be willing to sell internationally under the radar.
There is also
http://www.saxandwoodwind.com.au
Just remember also that you have to add in shipping and import taxes (the US customs will charge you). You could be looking at $150 USD in shipping and $150-$500 in tax in the US to import something depending on the price. However, the export price charged by the retailer in Aus should technically be less than listed as all Australian pricing includes GST, so you would/should pay the listed price less 10%. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9195 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | No import charges were chsrged on the Schilke because it is an American made product. If you are buyin g something foreign made then expect to pay import duties. |
Are you sure of that? I was under the impression that the taxes were based on the location of the retailer, not the original country of origin?
I lived in foreign (non-U.S.) countries for ca. over 17 years and always had to pay based on the origin of the seller. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1969
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:27 am Post subject: Australia and European prices |
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With two orders for my Scodwell USA trumpets and flugelhorns from Peter Bertram in Freiburg, Germany and Sax and Woodwinds and Brass in Melbourne, Australia a couple years ago, I certainly was curious how they would sell. My distributor is Washington Music Center and we arranged "Export" pricing to keep the retail prices in line with US prices. Soon after shipping I received an inquiry on my website from a fellow in Norway wanting my "Boston" model Bb trumpet and I advised him to contact Bertram Music in Freiburg which he did. He emailed back saying their price was substantially higher than Washington Music and he bought the horn from WMC. The pricing in Australia was much higher than the US as well and my "Export" pricing was to no avail there as well. Both dealers have not re-ordered which does not surprise me and I will re-evaluate dealing overseas in the future.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1475 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: |
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US goods are not dutiable upon return.
The only time there would be any duty is if the horn had work done to it overseas and the duty would be only on the repair or modification.
I was a licensed Customs Broker for years and handled hundreds of US good returned. Some were indeed modified overseas and duty was due on the modifications.
R. Tomasek |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:01 am Post subject: |
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I have a couple AR Resonance MPs coming from Italy. Am I going to owe customs fees for the them? _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2669 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Tony
While I can’t comment specifically on those who stocked your instruments down under ( maybe choose new t to comment directly is a better term) the cost of instruments here has always been a problem.
One of these of volume; small population = less sales and therefore less profit. Price gouging is the norm.
Another is cost of running a store. Our commercial rent levels are stupidly high, getting higher and make for the need for a bigger profit margin.
Then there are the behind closed doors deals, like volume sales for certain brands, etc etc. let’s pick the scuba industry... where volume sales in a month can result in a 40% discount on wholesale prices! This means the store pushes that brand only.
Your horns, as nice as they are, were quite likely are a victim of all of these factors, plus many schools will penny pinch when buying. Parents also think google and eBay are where the bargains are...
If I have to buy new, I look overseas. If I buy second hand, I only buy what I want or becomes available, and 99% of the time it is overseas. The reason is not only the lack of desire to be shafted on prices, but also the customer service we get is highly questionable at times. Locally, let’s just say useless is a good term to start with. To get a specific piccolo rum pet case, I had to give up on store and go via a bassoon specialist who got the case to me in a few weeks, not 6-8 months, as one local store though it ‘might’ take...
Hope that fills you in on or scene a bit!
Cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1475 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Theslawdog.
You might. If the value is under $2500.00, you may pay duty but it should not require a formal entry. (A formal entry is virtually always required on a shipment valued over $2500.00 and it will very, very likely require the services of a customs broker). Even we who experienced years in the industry sometimes were astonished at the inconsistency.
Mail shipments are usually not a problem. Cargo shipments can be. UPS, FedEx, and other couriers are supposed to know what they are doing, but I did have to step in many times when those companies messed up.
If you have to have a customs broker clear your trumpets, get ready for some very unexpected charges that will like add up to over $200.00.
Then again, things like this slide through sometimes with zero issues.
Customs keeps track of who imports what and how often. If people import more than a handful of shipments in a year, you will likely have some issues that will need to be resolved with a broker.
R. Tomasek
Last edited by Vin DiBona on Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Vin DiBona wrote: | Theslawdog.
You might. If the value is under $2500.00, you may pay duty but it should not require a formal entry. (A formal entry is virtually always required on shipment valued over $2500.00 and it will very, very likely require the services of a customs broker). Even we who experienced years in the industry sometimes were astonished at the inconsistency.
Mail shipments are usually not a problem. Cargo shipments can be. UPS, FedEx, and other couriers are supposed to know what they are doing, but I did have to step in many times when those companies messed up.
If you have to have a customs broker clear your trumpets, get ready for some very unexpected charges that will like add up to over $200.00.
Then again, things like this slide through sometimes with zero issues.
Customs keeps track of who imports what and how often. If people import more than a handful of shipments in a year, you will likely have some issues that will need to be resolved with a broker.
R. Tomasek |
Thank you for your reply. It's supposed to be here tomorrow, so I'll let you know what happens.
All the best... _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1475 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hopefully, no issues will occur.
R. Tomasek |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: Australia and European prices |
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Tony Scodwell wrote: | With two orders for my Scodwell USA trumpets and flugelhorns from Peter Bertram in Freiburg, Germany and Sax and Woodwinds and Brass in Melbourne, Australia a couple years ago, I certainly was curious how they would sell. My distributor is Washington Music Center and we arranged "Export" pricing to keep the retail prices in line with US prices. Soon after shipping I received an inquiry on my website from a fellow in Norway wanting my "Boston" model Bb trumpet and I advised him to contact Bertram Music in Freiburg which he did. He emailed back saying their price was substantially higher than Washington Music and he bought the horn from WMC. The pricing in Australia was much higher than the US as well and my "Export" pricing was to no avail there as well. Both dealers have not re-ordered which does not surprise me and I will re-evaluate dealing overseas in the future.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Hi Tony,
Some of this may be due to the higher cost of living in Australia compared with most American cities (except the biggest one like NY) so rent on a storefront can be incredibly expensive. We also have a much higher minimum wage. Then you have fluctuations in currency.
All of those can drive the price of a horn up a fair bit.
Also, the needed margin to turn a profit might be a lot higher because we can't rely on volume of sales and all the big music stores have gone bust so it's mostly just standalone stores fighting to make a profit in a niche market.
Also, if there is only one of that instrument in Australia, then one may set the price on it at a premium.
The real question is how are many Yamahas so cheap? I don't know, but I'm sure glad they are. |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1969
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:03 am Post subject: Australia and European prices |
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Thanks to you both for your explanations on why my horns cost more in Australia. I do have a question though...
Sax and Woodwind and Brass agreed to my pricing prior to placing their order and I assume they realized the final selling price would be in line with what the market would be willing to pay.
Perhaps they underestimated whatever niche my horns would fill when giants like Yamaha and Bach are everywhere. Buyers on a budget can easily look to China for inexpensive horns (that seem to improve by the month) or the wonderful instruments Carol Brass are making in Taiwan.
Anyway, I will always continue to make my trumpets and flugelhorns as good as I can, and being able to play them at a high level as I build them is an advantage the "big guys" do not have.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Australia and European prices |
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Tony Scodwell wrote: | Thanks to you both for your explanations on why my horns cost more in Australia. I do have a question though...
Sax and Woodwind and Brass agreed to my pricing prior to placing their order and I assume they realized the final selling price would be in line with what the market would be willing to pay.
Perhaps they underestimated whatever niche my horns would fill when giants like Yamaha and Bach are everywhere. Buyers on a budget can easily look to China for inexpensive horns (that seem to improve by the month) or the wonderful instruments Carol Brass are making in Taiwan.
Anyway, I will always continue to make my trumpets and flugelhorns as good as I can, and being able to play them at a high level as I build them is an advantage the "big guys" do not have.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Aloha, Tony!
When are your new flugels coming out?
-Jr _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 903 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: |
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theslawdawg wrote: | I have a couple AR Resonance MPs coming from Italy. Am I going to owe customs fees for the them? |
hello slawdawg
when i first ordered custom mps from the USA, i had the bad surprise to knwo that my mps where retained by other Customs , and i had to pay taxes on the value, taxes on the shipping, and taxes on the insurance. 24% each...
i quickly learned how to get them without be sent by mail...
let us know
best |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: |
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JVL wrote: | theslawdawg wrote: | I have a couple AR Resonance MPs coming from Italy. Am I going to owe customs fees for the them? |
hello slawdawg
when i first ordered custom mps from the USA, i had the bad surprise to knwo that my mps where retained by other Customs , and i had to pay taxes on the value, taxes on the shipping, and taxes on the insurance. 24% each...
i quickly learned how to get them without be sent by mail...
let us know
best |
24%??? _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 903 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:57 am Post subject: |
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yes ! |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2669 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Australia and European prices |
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Tony Scodwell wrote: | agreed to my pricing prior to placing their order and I assume they realized the final selling price would be in line with what the market would be willing to pay.
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There is one word in there... Let's must say I prefer walking onto a used car lot to walking into some music stores in Sydney. There are so many tales of woe I can't begin - and probably shouldn't.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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JL New Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2019 Posts: 5
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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So I contacted a few places about a Yamaha trumpet.
A couple can't sell to the USA, Yamaha prohibits it.
One could, but their warranty is not Yamaha's 5 year, it's their own 1 year.
I looked on Yamaha's site, and they have a whole list of places that are unauthorized sellers, and some may sell counterfeit horns.
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