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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10209 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:07 am Post subject: Conn Victor 80A |
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I have a Conn Victor 80A made around 1955. I believe it has a .484 bore and plays very well although it can be a lot of work above the staff.
Anyone else play one of these? What mouthpiece seems best for the kind of sound you want?
And what tuning procedure do you use - main tuning slide and opera glass or just the OG with the main in all the way.
Any other thoughts on how to get the most of this horn?
Thanks! _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle
Last edited by jhatpro on Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Any mouthpiece works but my favorite for all my old cornets is a Cleveland C. Yup. The C is for cornet. I also have the T for my trumpets. Of course the Cleveland trumpet and cornets I have play great with them too.
If you ever get a chance to play a Holton Heim 2 cornet mouthpiece, it will take that 80A into another realm. For traditional jazz that mouthpiece is really the king. I got the tip from a guy who played for years in New Orleans. Snagged one off of Ebay and it is amazing. Though thinking about it, it would be much smaller in diameter than what you usually play.
After that comes the Curry line. And the Flip Oakes too. All those work great with the 80A.
Slides: I like the opera glass used as the tuning slide and the other one all the way in. For me that gives the most depth of sound. Plus tuning on the fly is possible, though I don't ever have to do that. The 80A is amazing. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3662 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:48 am Post subject: |
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It takes a Conn short shank mouthpiece. The originals can be found, but Mark Curry has come out with a series of cornet pieces that have the short shank.
I got one for a 4A (medium large version of the 80A) and it really lit the horn up - good high register as well. Conn had some stuff figured out.
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3834 Location: Greece
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:13 am Post subject: |
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I have very good results with a pair of vintage Purviance pieces , the tight bbore helps to manage the huge bore of the horn specially in high registers.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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agroovin48 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2014 Posts: 94 Location: Goodyear, Arizona
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:14 am Post subject: |
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The Curry Conn short shank 7VC works very nicely with my 1933 Conn 80A and is very easy to play with a great sound. Conn originally recommended using the opera glass for normal tuning I believe. _________________ agroovin48
Alan Cahill
1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2 |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:21 am Post subject: |
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It all depends on the cup depth you are using. Deeper than a 3c should use a short shank. The upper register wont be flat, and your opera glass slide wont be too far out. If you are using shallower than a 3c its better to use a long shank other wise you need to pull the slide too much and also the upper register will be extra deal breaker sharp. That is with a 3c or shallower short shank. you wont find many short shank mouthpiece with a shallower than 3c cup, but the 80a REALLY lights up with a shallower than 3c depth, its just sharp like crazy and even sharper around high B natural. With a long shank its pretty good, and with a extra long shank and longer throat its dialed in pretty good with a shallower cup. The OD of the shank should be about .342, .345 is ok, and .438 not as good.
If the opera glass slide is more than about 3/8 inch out the whole horn will play much less refined. If your opera slide is more than 1/2 inch out (a normal looking amount by the way) its better to pull the main slide a bit and push in the opera slide the same amount. The opera slide is a whopping .484 bore and the tubing is not thin so when its pulled out the bore at that section is something like .525, and you really feel that playing around the horn.
If you push the opera slide all the way in and only pull the main slide its not too bad actually but the slots are a little notchy. You may like that. The best intonation and response is when the opera glass i out only about half the "normal amount". _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10209 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Lots of great information and advice. Thanks, guys! _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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connicalman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 1668 Location: West Medford, MA
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:45 am Post subject: |
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congrats on the semi-old Conn. They play nicely, and even better with the no-ridge, slightly shorter & wider taper, period mouthpieces.
Suggestion: Make use of the micro-tuner as well as the main tuning slide. These were originally designed to morph from Bb to A with the main and 1, 2, 3, slides.
The mpc length can be somewhat compensated for by extending the 'main' slide. _________________ kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A... |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1871 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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I always liked to look at them as XXL bore trumpets.
Played with a cup in the Reeves M style and a Warburton 4,4* or 5 backbore they had a great high register. I also played them with a Bach 11A 26 throat 24 backbore. Worked pretty well. Endurance was fine with the smaller diameters. With larger diameters, I found the .484 bore too much for a weekend warrior.
I usually used both tuning slides in combination. |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10209 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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I’ve tried a variety of mouthpieces with my 80A and find the most efficient for me is a short shank Curry 3DC with a Warburton 4MC a close second. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3834 Location: Greece
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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jhatpro wrote: | I’ve tried a variety of mouthpieces with my 80A and find the most efficient for me is a short shank Curry 3DC with a Warburton 4MC a close second. |
If you plan to use the horn for your trad jazz combo I suggest you to use the Warburton and if is possible the M cup .
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10209 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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I agree the Warb 4MC is a good choice for Dixieland - especially with a tight KT Star backbore. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3834 Location: Greece
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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jhatpro wrote: | I agree the Warb 4MC is a good choice for Dixieland - especially with a tight KT Star backbore. |
Exactly the mpc I use to play with my .464 eterna cornet before I change to Reeves/Purviance it was a 3M with KT bbore , very good and quite efficient combination.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Forgot to mention earlier two things. The upper range is very easy on the 80A. If not, I suspect the mouthpiece is not a good match. Also, the Curry P makes for a really dynamite trad jazz set up. It's not that shallow but it really has a nice sound with an easy response. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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markfreitas Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Las Vegas, NV USA
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Conn Victor 80A |
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[quote="jhatpro"]I have a Conn Victor 80A made around 1955. I believe it has a .484 bore and plays very well although it can be a lot of work above the staff.
Anyone else play one of these? What mouthpiece seems best for the kind of sound you want?
And what tuning procedure do you use - main tuning slide and opera glass or just the OG with the main in all the way.
Any other thoughts on how to get the most of this horn?
-------------------------
I've had excellent results using Denis Wick Classic 3B and 4B pieces. Warm sounds and great in all ranges. I use the main tuning slide for coarse tuning and the Opera Glass for fine tuning. If your valves are on the "loose" side due to age/wear, i recommend Hetman Classic Piston lube. Try Music Nomad valve oil for very loose valves. _________________ LA Benge 3x MLP
Schilke P5-4 picc
Yamaha 631 Flugel
Conn 80A cornets
York & Sons Professional Cornet w/shepherd's crook |
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jhl Regular Member
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 Posts: 18
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Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I am glad to see Lipshurt's post. I have played a few regular cornet shank mpcs in my 1941 80A; that is, I've played the ones that don't wobble. Some work well, others do not. I wonder if the cup depth of the mpcs that "fit" affected how well they played? |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2474
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Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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The "main tuning slide" everyone is referring to is not the tuning slide. That slide was designed to be used for quick change between Bb and A, and to be mechanically linked to the valve slides. It is intended to function, with the aid of the stop, as a switch, not an adjustment. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3662 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:51 am Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | The "main tuning slide" everyone is referring to is not the tuning slide. That slide was designed to be used for quick change between Bb and A, and to be mechanically linked to the valve slides. It is intended to function, with the aid of the stop, as a switch, not an adjustment. |
That was true until Conn stopped making the Bb/A quick change mechanism after WWII. They continued to make the 80A for decades afterward. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8938 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:56 am Post subject: |
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yourbrass wrote: | OldSchoolEuph wrote: | The "main tuning slide" everyone is referring to is not the tuning slide. That slide was designed to be used for quick change between Bb and A, and to be mechanically linked to the valve slides. It is intended to function, with the aid of the stop, as a switch, not an adjustment. |
That was true until Conn stopped making the Bb/A quick change mechanism after WWII. They continued to make the 80A for decades afterward. |
If you compare the two vintages the only difference I can see is that they eliminated the linkages and rotated the 2nd slide.
I believe it's correct to say the design intention was to use the front slide for key change and the vertical opera-glass for main tuning. But my reading here is that users have independently concluded that there is some advantage to mixing that up. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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steevo Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 455
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I own a Conn 80A made in 1948, and really enjoy it. It is from the era that does not have the Bb-A quick change mechanism, but still uses old taper "short shank" mouthpiece receiver.
I found that it can be a but tricky selecting a mouthpiece for my 80A. Modern cornet mouthpieces don't exactly fit the receiver, and I have had pitch issues and slotting inconsistencies with them. I really liked playing the 80A with a period short-shanked Conn 3 mouthpiece. It worked well... until I lost it. I tried other short-shanked Conn 3 mouthpieces, but they did not work as well.
As I live in Portland, and usually play Monette mouthpieces, I had the Monette shop make me a mouthpiece for my 80A. They measured the taper of my receiver and made a Resonance Prana B2S5 that works fantastically.
I don't like funnel shaped cornet mouthpieces in this instrument. Depending on what sound I am after, I will adjust tuning via main tuning slide or opera tuning as appropriate. If I want a more 'trumpet' sound, I keep the opera slide in all the way. If I want something more fluffy, the main slide stays in. It can take a bit to figure out, but experimentation is key.
The thing I like best about the 80A is how easy it is just to make music. I don't think about the bore size. I don't think about individual notes. I find that my 80A will almost disappear and does not get between me and the music, if that makes any sense at all. If I were stranded on a desert island, this would be the horn I would want to have with me.
-Steve |
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