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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:43 pm Post subject: What wd old-world Baroque plyrs have thot of modern plyrs? |
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Pardon the shorthand in the subject line but they're miserly with how many characters you can use.
Any aficionados of Baroque-era trumpeting care to speculate re: what old world players would have thought of the performances of modern players with natural/Baroque instruments? You think they'd hear Bahb Civiletti, Alison Balsom etc. and think they're fantastic or do you think modern performances would sound "off" to them?
I'm thinking primarily of natural trumpet (with and without holes) performances but go ahead and include those who use a picc to play Baroque literature as well. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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david johnson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jul 2002 Posts: 1616 Location: arkansas/missouri
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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They might think - "They have all those valves and notes, why will they want to play the horn I have to put up with?" lol |
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Bwat Regular Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2019 Posts: 47
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cgaiii Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1549 Location: Virginia USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Bwat, interesting stuff.
For much of the way we currently play, I imagine baroque trumpet players might be irritated by the bad sound of harmony in equal temperament. Other than that, I am sure they would wonder, as a previous poster said, why we would use the old stuff when we have all this modern stuff as they wondered why we did not tune it properly. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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noamiller Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 48 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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To add on what everyone else has said, they would be surprised on how "pure" the sound is. Baroque playing was far from pure sounding, a lot of what we think of airy-ness and dissonant (they were in slightly different intonation configuration). They would be amazed at the vent system. There might have been vents in Wogel's inventions trumpet, but we don't know for sure.
Valves took a really long time to catch on and standardize, natural trumpets were still being played through early-mid 19th century... those valves systems were either too difficult to maintain and/or inefficient with the air flow. If you showed a Baroque trumpeter a modern trumpet, you would have a much easier time to convince them to switch over and learn the fingering system.
Now in regard to the picc - they would not have responded to that kindly. There was a controversy with the cornet not sounding like the trumpet. R. Strauss thought that the cornet was an abomination. It just does not have that heavy brassy fanfare sound, it's just too bright.
Bottom line, we don't know how exactly natural trumpets sounded like / played like 300 years ago, so there is no such thing as an authentic performance/ instrument. At this point the correct terminology is historically informed practice. People will tell you that they make trumpets from the original design of some big name trumpet maker, but those trumpets only represent a small population of players who used those (so it's not "THE" natural trumpet the can possibly represent all of Baroque and all of Europe)... and you cannot replicate the precise training they had.. the humidity they were experiencing.. the exact metal source, as well as the rooms/halls they would have played in. There are too many variables. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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noamiller wrote: | To add on what everyone else has said, they would be surprised on how "pure" the sound is. |
Alison Balsom's "Sound The Trumpet" is absolute ear candy. The sound is like a hybrid of flugel, french horn and trombone.
There's something uniquely appealing about lip trills on natural/Baroque trumpets. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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I think we’ll never know. |
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cgaiii Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1549 Location: Virginia USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:13 am Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | I think we’ll never know. |
Not until we get the secret recordings they made. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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