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Claude and Getzen Trumpets



 
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EricV
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:14 pm    Post subject: Claude and Getzen Trumpets Reply with quote

A friend told me about an article he came across that contains reference to Claude playing a Getzen trumpet. I said i was pretty sure that Claude never played or endorsed Getzens and he sent me the article which is attached below and the link which seems to be the collection of all things Claude at the University of Illinois.

Maybe the article is incorrect as I thought Claude played a pre WW11 Besson Meha prior to developing the Benge and Selmer horns but this article refers to his Getzen trumpet that was primarily used by LA studio players in the 1960's.

Can any of the CG guys who knew him well clarify this?

Cheers

EricV


https://archon.library.illinois.edu/index.php?p=collections/findingaid&id=5558&q=&rootcontentid=66



Contains Claude Gordon's educational output including the thought behind his method books and their various drafts. There is correspondence between Claude and Herbert L. Clarke, which led to his writing Brass Playing is No Harder Than Deep Breathing. Also contained in this body of material are Claude's personal method books of well-known methodologies and pedagogy. Claude Gordon held an annual trumpet and brass clinic and has kept his notes and video and audio tapes of these years. Claude Gordon also had a large collection of historical cornets and trumpets, and a series of historical mouthpieces. Of primary importance is the Besson prototype. [b]A trumpet enthusiast will also take note of his Getzen trumpet that was primarily used by the Los Angelos studio artists in the 1960's.[/b] There is also a Selmer Paris trumpet that originally belonged to Louis Armstrong and then was passed on to Harry James. Claude Gordon also has a large collection of mouthpieces for both cornet and trumpet. A small collection of them have been cut in half, or spliced, so he could learn how they were made and why certain mouthpiece designs are more effective than others.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Claude and Getzen Trumpets Reply with quote

EricV wrote:
Of primary importance is the Besson prototype. A trumpet enthusiast will also take note of his Getzen trumpet that was primarily used by the Los Angelos studio artists in the 1960's. ...

------------------------------------
That only indicates that he owned one, not that he used it professionally. Are there other indicators about how (or if) he used the Getzen?
Without further details, it's difficult to determine what conclusions to draw.

Jay
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EricV
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think its saying that at all, its saying he produced and developed a Getzen trumpet that was used by LA studio players. Have you heard of a CG Getzen?. The studio players would hardly be using Claudes own instrument!!

I just think its an error
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand now ...
the question is whether the mention of a possible 'Getzen CG model trumpet' was in error.

I read the wording to say that CG owned some model Getzen trumpet, and that same Getzen model was used by LA players. I have no idea about either situation.

Jay
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EricV
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jay,

Thats what i was trying to say (I probably could have expressed it better!)

If it is as we think an error, i just thought maybe one of the ex CG guys JohnM, JeffP, EricB etc might have some input. I havent seen them around here much lately come to think of it.

Cheers

EricV
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
I understand now ...
the question is whether the mention of a possible 'Getzen CG model trumpet' was in error.

I read the wording to say that CG owned some model Getzen trumpet, and that same Getzen model was used by LA players. I have no idea about either situation.

Jay


That's how I read it as well. I knew him, and he never mentioned working with Getzen to develop a trumpet. It was Benge, and then Selmer USA for his two different models.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
I read the wording to say that CG owned some model Getzen trumpet, and that same Getzen model was used by LA players.


And that is the correct interpretation. Claude had many horns and even more mouthpieces. He used to cut mouthpiece lengthwise to analyze them. And he took apart many of the horns he owned. He admired the Getzen Eterna but didn't play it much if at all during his career.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Audino played a large bore Eterna. Snooky Young played an Eterna as well.
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so what
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
... Claude had many horns and even more mouthpieces. He used to cut mouthpiece lengthwise to analyze them. And he took apart many of the horns he owned. He admired the Getzen Eterna but didn't play it much if at all during his career.


I bet Claude Gordon Played a lot of trumpets during his time. It is surprising to hear about him analyzing mouthpieces so much, given his often repeated advice that seemed to boil down to "just pick one and learn to play it". He clearly had ideas about what a mouthpiece should be like - GC mouthpieces are the evidence.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so what wrote:
... his (CG's) often repeated advice that seemed to boil down to "just pick one and learn to play it". He clearly had ideas about what a mouthpiece should be like - GC mouthpieces are the evidence.

--------------------------------------------
Perhaps he meant 'pick one that YOU like and learn' - not 'use what ever one you happen to grab'.
And once you've found one that you like, don't keep searching unless it starts causing problems.

Jay
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I accidentally won a Besson trumpet on the estate auction a couple years ago. It was just a student model horn and I sold it and kept the double case it came in. Some of the issue is who was labeling things and what kind of speculation they did about what they found. I personally know the guy that did that and read his doctoral thesis and he didn't really know what he was looking at.

Another weird thing is mentioning a Claude Gordon Piccolo Trumpet Method. To my knowledge Claude never played or owned a piccolo trumpet. He did collect lots of trumpets and sometimes bought things and got rid of them. I remember once him asking me if I knew anyone that wanted a NY Bach. He had bought it and didn't want it and the guy I mentioned it to named Gary Jobe loved it and was very happy.

John is right that Claude did stuff with mouthpieces to analyze things. I know that at some point he took apart and measured various Meha Bessons. I just got done listening to a bunch fo audio of Claude and he mentioned a rare model of Besson he wanted to track down. He was totally into all things trumpet.

Jeff
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Matt Graves
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, Claude probably owned a Getzen just to analyze it. Funny thing is when I started lessons with Claude, I was playing the Getzen Severinsen Eterna 900S with a CG Benge 3S mouthpiece.

Claude wanted me to switch trumpets (and mouthpieces) right away! LOL!

My dad bought me a Bach 43* Lightweight for High School Graduation.
I think Claude was a little let down that I didn't get the CG Selmer at that point.

Anyway, I don't think he ever played a Getzen professionally.
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too remember him being down on Getzen trumpets. At one point he mentioned how the Getzen piccolo that Fred Sautter played on wasn't that great.

I don't know if Claude ever played piccolo though. I don't think he did. Claude did get me a great deal on a Burbank Piccolo that Kanstul made and I remember he had Charlie Davis try out several and pick out a good one for me. $650 was an excellent deal back in 1986 when I think the Schilke P5-4 was about $1500 without a case. I used that piccolo a bunch until 2001 when I sold it for $1200 and bought a Schilke P5-4 for $1800 with a case.

Jeff
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fred Sautter. Wow, a voice from the past.

When I got a Severinsen in the early 60s, a subscription to a Getzen newsletter came with it and Fred Sautter contributed regularly. If I remember right, he was doing work in Eastern Europe.

I have always remembered the situation but forgot his name. Thanks for refreshing me.

BTW, at that time the Severinsen model was popular with L.A. studio musicians I knew.
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